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Now Irina steps in, having mostly listened to him and occasionally helped him with translating. “It was good, because after he was wounded, it was more peaceful. He could rest for a few days.”\n\nWe drink our coffee and look out over Paris for some time. We even talk about the weather, the beautiful buildings and the things they’ve done and seen here. But then Maxim takes us back to the battleground.\n\n“It wasn’t all as dangerous as what people think about it. But sometimes protesters threw grenades next to me and in other situations, police officers helped me. It was a crazy situation. Some policemen were crazy though.”\n\n“In every life, every culture, some people are bad and you can really see that in protests.”\n\nSuddenly we are back and right in between the protesters and the police, with Molotov cocktails flying over. He whistles a ”wooooo” sound, like a falling bomb. This is not a place where you can be without any risks. “You need to feel the situation,” he says. “Sometimes young people just go and think ‘I’m young and a journalist’. You need to have experience; think about it. Can I run and snap, or not?”\n\nHe keeps on standing up from his seat, producing comical movie sounds while acting out the intensity of the protest, waving his arms, moving up and down in his char. But his photos tell the story even better. The violence, the clashes – they truly are spectacular images.\n\nBut amidst the waterfall of words, he says something I didn’t expect.\n\n“I was very happy. The revolution was so sad, but sometimes it was so beautiful. Sometimes, if you forget about what happened, it was better than a movie. It was such an unreal situation.”\n\nThe Battle – Good vs. Evil\n\nHe continued talking about legendary battles, the good versus evil look-and-feel of it. Did he feel like it was Russia vs. Europe?\n\n“With this project I didn’t really think about Russia being evil. EuroMaidan was not necessarily anti-Russian. But afterwards people started to understand that Russian media create another reality. There were more than half a million people at the Maidan square, but Russian television always talked about 200 radicals.”\n\nHe goes on to give some historical context, and comes back to the Crimean annexation. ”After Crimea, Russia was evil for me.” So I asked him again, especially since his series is named Culture of Confrontation. “No, it’s not between Europe and Russia. It’s between two cultures. Two cultures that want a change in life. One doesn’t want to be like Europe, they just want to live without corruption. The other one is not about Russia, it’s about their dream about the Soviet Union.”\n\nEast and West Ukraine are completely different countries, he says. Kiev is mixed, sure, but if you go to the East, it’s like a complete mirror of the West. And with a lot of excited hand gestures, Maxim talks about his own very early memories of the Soviet Union, and mirrors it with his travels through Europe. “People didn’t live in Russia, but they lived in the Soviet Union, they remember how it was, it’s a dream about being young again, about going back to the way things were.”\n\nTuberculosis and child soldiers\n\nSomething else that you’d think was a thing from the past is tuberculosis. But Maxim shot a compelling photoseries about tuberculosis in Crimea. The government in Crimea was not very cooperative, but he kept pushing, until a director of a hospital gave him permission to take pictures. He tells me how he spent 3 months in Sebastopol and comes back to something he only briefly mentioned before: Crimea Sich – a military training camp for children between 7 and 16, situated in the Crimean Mountains. “I kept coming back to Crimea, spending one year taking pictures there. Then I started to think about a documentary movie, which is better for storytelling than pictures.” \n\nHis brother, a young Ukrainian filmmaker, convinced him to go back again and shoot in the mountains. “I lost 7 kg per two weeks climbing mountains, with my gear. It was intense.” He pants heavily, reenacting the scene. “We climbed mountains with the cameras. It was so good, so beautiful, but also pretty crazy.” One of his filmmaker friends from Europe told him he is crazy. And as if he agrees, he repeats the word multiple times: “crazy, crazy … crazy.”\n\nMaxim and his brother came back with over 40 hours of footage of child soldiers from Ukraine, from Russia and Moldova. He tried to kickstart the documentary, but couldn’t get the money together. According to him, there are not enough rich people in Ukraine. \n\nFinally, I ask him if he’s looking forward to going back to Ukraine in December. He is silent for ten seconds, coughs a few times and then says solemnly “It’s a very, very sensitive question. Unfortunately, in the Ukrainian situation, not a lot has changed. The old system is still in place. Old politics, old people who don’t want change. It might be better after 10 or 20 years”.\n\nWhen I am almost ready to go, he suddenly asks me about what I thought about him, his photos, his English. I give him some compliments, and I mean them, but he doesn’t really seem to register it.\n\nThen he says, “I don’t like a system or any structure. I’m just a person that lives on this planet. Why do people start a war? I have friends in Russia, and they are very good. I don’t have problems with Russians, with the government, with people who believe propaganda. In Europe it’s the same, people watch TV and just believe that. It’s about the Ukrainian revolution and you try to help people understand, but not everyone understands. It’s still a war that’s going on. A war between cultures.”\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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VITAM ET MORTEM","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":"#2d2d2d","hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":true,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":false,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"slideshow","summary":{"ops":[{"insert":"2017\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"\"Although war, perhaps, aims to achieve peace, it’s an undoubted evil\". - Lao Tzu"},{"insert":"\n\nProject INTER VITAM ET MORTEM (latin for “Between Life & Death”) is a reflection on the wars, which like cancer spread all over the earth. On the photos you can see my exploration of territories of Eastern Ukraine devastated by the war, of places that were of high importance before and during the fights, but after were standing abandoned. This project is about scars that wars leave in human souls. It’s about emptiness and loneliness. Wars change everyone and everything. Soldiers who come back from war are most often forgotten by their state and misunderstood by their family and friends. Civil population, children, who faced the war, received big psychological traumas, that remains for rest of their life. They had to leave along with their fear, anger, pain. Who won and who lost is not a question. In war, no one wins or loses. There is only destruction.\n"}]},"text_content2":{},"alignment":"Left","index_caption_enabled":true,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":true,"slug":"inter-vitam-et-mortem","cover_media_fit":"contain","part_of_stacked_page":false,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"Default","index_grid_item_grow":false,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2019-05-09T07:18:38Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":false,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-24T05:43:13Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":"1a77ea5e-a28d-4476-b917-b7fa8f5898a5","index_grid_item_width":"1/2","published":true,"text_columns":"One","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"Default","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":-1073741824,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":false,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":true,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"M","meta_description":"Project INTER VITAM ET MORTEM (latin for “Between Life & Death”) is a reflection on the wars, which like cancer spread all over the earth. ","viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":{"aspect_ratio":"611:408","asset_id":null,"cover_image":true,"description":{},"duration":0,"filename":"30e655aa-127a-4757-a35e-6681b7e3b943.jpg","filesize":392353,"height":816,"hidden":false,"id":"30e655aa-127a-4757-a35e-6681b7e3b943","inserted_at":"2019-05-08T17:36:17Z","name":null,"orientation":"Landscape","original_filename":"0005_03_DOM_2017_01_14_0019.jpg","playback_id":null,"poster_position":0.0,"private":false,"rank":-268435460,"set_id":"1a77ea5e-a28d-4476-b917-b7fa8f5898a5","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","src":"https://fotomat.freetls.fastly.net/prod/63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116/30e655aa-127a-4757-a35e-6681b7e3b943.jpg","status":"ready","tag_ids":[],"type":"photo","updated_at":"2019-07-26T09:20:11Z","weight":3,"width":1222},"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"works/inter-vitam-et-mortem","imagegrid_columns":"L","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{"ops":[{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"\"Although war, perhaps, aims to achieve peace, it’s an undoubted evil\". Lao Tzu"},{"insert":"\n\nWar lets loose all the destructive forces of mankind against itself. What kind of insanity is this? It takes away the dearest people and hope, breaks fate, ruins dreams. War takes any meaning and breeds emptiness. An emptiness that burns all around leaving just ruins. Person’s mind, traumatised after the war, reminds these deserted landscapes of ruins, that continue its existence misunderstood and forgotten, storing the memories of war.\n"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Project INTER VITAM ET MORTEM (latin for “Between Life & Death”) is a reflection on the wars, which like cancer spread all over the earth. On the photos you can see my exploration of territories of Eastern Ukraine devastated by the war, of places that were of high importance before and during the fights, but after were standing abandoned. I visited the places where I was in 2014 while documenting the armed conflict in Donbas when everything was flooded with blood and lead. Areas that had recently witnessed bloody clashes, now stood abandoned in absolute silence. Schools, hospitals, factories, checkpoints - they looked like forgotten monuments of war.\n"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"This project is about scars that wars leave in human souls. It’s about emptiness and loneliness. Wars change everyone and everything. Soldiers who come back from war are most often forgotten by their state and misunderstood by their family and friends. Civil population, children, who faced the war, received big psychological traumas, that remains for rest of their life. They had to leave along with their fear, anger, pain. Who won and who lost is not a question. In war, no one wins or loses. There is only destruction.\n"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"After facing the war myself, I already didn’t want to show its bloody, frightening appearance, nor to romanticise it. The commotion of death appears in these images as absolute silence. I’m using landscape photography, a more intimate approach, to convey feelings more deeply. Sometimes thoughts of the past and the scars of war are much more painful for the people and the country that survived the war than the battles themselves. These feelings will never stop. They will remain for their whole lives.\n"}]},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":false,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2019-05-15T08:17:14Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"S","slideshow_ratio":"auto","id":"812d3133-3ddc-41d5-b834-095ea1087e95","subtype":null,"slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":"30e655aa-127a-4757-a35e-6681b7e3b943","children":null,"parent_id":"6bef0088-5e62-45a5-84f8-e894bc8bdf58","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Left","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"None","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":true,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":null,"text_content1":{},"title":"Quesabesde, Text by Ivan Sanchez | spanish, 2014","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":"#2d2d2d","hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":false,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"5:4","type":"index","summary":{},"text_content2":{},"alignment":"Left","index_caption_enabled":true,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"quesabesde-text-by-ivan-sanchez-spanish-2014","cover_media_fit":"cover","part_of_stacked_page":false,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"Default","index_grid_item_grow":false,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2019-05-09T09:46:21Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":true,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-22T06:24:20Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/2","published":true,"text_columns":"One","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"Default","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":2147482623,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":false,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":true,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"M","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"publications/essays-interviews/quesabesde-text-by-ivan-sanchez-spanish-2014","imagegrid_columns":"L","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":true,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2019-05-09T10:18:03Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"S","slideshow_ratio":"auto","id":"2599d79d-2694-45d5-b4ec-d14e14acc2e4","subtype":"text","slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":"d6a6b9ad-bd4c-4994-bb6c-6d7a220dc4f2","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Left","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"None","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":true,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},"text_content1":{"ops":[{"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"En ese momento pensé que Ucrania se estaba rompiendo en diferentes países"},{"insert":"\n\nEstaba participando en una masterclass en Bielorrusia cuando todo se desató en Kiev. Al regresar, la situación era muy complicada e incluso había agresiones a periodistas. En mi primer día allí, el 1 de diciembre [de 2013], participé activamente en todos los acontecimientos como fotógrafo documental con mi cámara, sin tomar parte de la lucha ni lanzar cócteles molotov.\n\nNo tenía ningún encargo, pero se trataba de un momento histórico para mi país, así que necesitaba documentarlo todo. Fue algo muy inesperado no solo para mí, sino para todos los ucranianos. Desafortunadamente, todas las señales que vaticinaban malos augurios se cumplieron y la situación fue empeorando día a día.\n\nEstuve en Maidán prácticamente todo el tiempo, hablando con los manifestantes y conociéndoles. Estaba claro que las protestas no iban a ser el final del conflicto, así que después estuve en el este de Ucrania -Donetsk, Slaviansk, Lugansk- y también en Crimea. Estuve dos meses con los separatistas rusos y el último mes trabajé con el ejército ucraniano.\n\nEn un cierto momento, sin motivo aparente, los manifestantes comenzaron a correr y a lanzar consignas a favor de Ucrania. El escenario era el de una película de guerra muy antigua, con los militares corriendo y gritando. Yo corrí detrás de ellos, no sabía bien qué estaba ocurriendo, pero sabía que debía seguirles. Y entonces el hombre que porta la bandera apareció frente a mí. Fue un momento histórico.\n\nFue algo muy simbólico, porque antes de la revolución la bandera no tenía tanta importancia para el pueblo, pero ahora es muy importante y necesaria. Algunos ucranianos han muerto bajo esa bandera y por la independencia de Ucrania. Maidán fue solo el principio de la lucha por la independencia de Ucrania respecto a Rusia.\n\nPara mí es muy difícil hablar de metáfora cuando analizo la imagen, porque depende mucho del conocimiento y la personalidad de cada uno. Todos tenemos nuestra propia forma de entender las cosas y construir metáforas. En ese momento lo único que me pasó por la cabeza es que Ucrania se estaba rompiendo en diferentes países.\n\nEn épocas anteriores y durante mucho tiempo Ucrania ha estado bajo el control de diferentes países, siempre ha sido un objetivo. Bajo el signo de esta bandera, la gente luchó por la independencia de Ucrania ya antes de la Unión Soviética y de nuevo tras su desintegración.\nMe da la sensación de que lo que está ocurriendo en el Donbass es solo el comienzo de algo más grande. Es algo que no podemos solucionar tan fácilmente como se podría pensar. Si cedemos la región del Donbass de forma sencilla, igual que pasó con Crimea, Rusia después querrá anexionarse otras regiones como Járkov. No podemos ceder en esto porque hay mucha gente que está a favor de Ucrania, no de Rusia. Gente que ha luchado por ser ucraniana.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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The first experience I had when I was 5, with my mother, who was enthusiast, I used to watch how she processed family photos in a darkroom. Later I was given my first soviet camera SMENA, and started doing my own photos. After the collapse of the Soviet Union to buy and process film became more difficult and expensive, so my mother stopped doing it and me too. The second try was at the age of 12, than I joined the photo club, began shooting film and processing photos myself. But my enthusiasm didn’t last long. The third time I came back to photography was at the age of 24. I had a routine job, which I went every day, year after year, time flew quickly and nothing changed in my life. I understood that I need some hobby. I became interested in photography. All my free time I studied photography, read all kinds of literature and practiced. It allowed me to travel around the region I lived at that moment, after I started travel around the country. 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It is very close distance, you began to feel the same emotions, fear, happiness, sadness. When people look at such photos, they also feel emotions of your character. I also have 50mm film lens, but it’s more like emergency lens, as it happened that 35mm broke or in case I need to make some portraits for the magazines. I don’t like artificial light and don’t use flash. I take photos only in RAW format, as color correction is very important for me, I pay special attention to it. And I don’t use continuous shooting.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Where do you get your creative inspiration from?"},{"insert":"\n\nMostly I’m influenced not by photographers but by writers and painters. Each time I come to a new country, I visit museums, galleries. I love paintings of artists who worked in realism. They painted such important battle scenes and historical moments but never forgot about aesthetic side. 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військовий фотограф: чому українці неправильно бачать війну"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Максим Дондюк – український фотограф-документаліст. Знімав проект, присвячений людям із туберкульозом, робив фото з війни на Донбасі для закордонних агенцій. Працював для ЗМІ США, Польщі, Німеччини, Фінляндії тощо. Один із авторів виставки «Забуті світом», яка експонується цими днями у львівському Палаці мистецтв."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Що Ви думаєте щодо негативної реакції частини відвідувачів на виставку?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"У мене було відчуття віддзеркалення Донецька, просто інший бік дзеркала, де люди неспроможні сприймати не те, щоб іншу сторону, а взагалі бачать лише свою позицію, лише біле або лише чорне. І це дуже-дуже сумно, тому що демократична країна будується зовсім іншим шляхом."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Я і полякам казав: ви повинні розуміти, що ви проведете виставку, а тут люди, яких торкнулась ця трагедія, це війна! І от прийдуть на виставку ті, в кого загинули близькі, а ви показуєте прапори «ДНР», Росії… Вони зробили ризикований хід, що зробили виставку тут. Якби привезли її у Київ, це було би трохи інша реакція."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"А тут дійсно віддзеркалення того, що є там. Там гіперболізована любов до «совка», а тут – прагнення бути незалежними. І зараз знову окупаційна війна, тож це болюча тема. Але ж Росія не вторглася у Львів, Росія вторглася в Донецьк і люди у Львові мають зрозуміти, що там люди трохи інакше міркують, ніж тут."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Для цього треба відсторонитись і подивитись на це інакше. Але для організаторів це теж досвід. Бо вони там в Польщі думають, що тут всі демократичні, що всі розуміють, що і як. А от приїхали і побачили, як є. Я думав про те, аби зняти всі підписи на виставці, але організатори ж європейці, для них це шок, вони вважають це цензурою."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Я був і тут, і там, тож трохи з різних боків усе бачив. Але я не знаю, як би я поводився, якби мешкав тут, у Львові постійно і якби у мене забрали брата, сина, родича, і якби він там загинув від рук російських окупантів. І що б я тоді казав?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Мене якраз виставка і здивувала тим, що вона про різні боки конфлікту. Відчувається, що вона робилась для зовнішнього глядача, для європейського, який хоче відсторонитись і зрозуміти суть. Як думаєте, а тут це можливо?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Варто розуміти, що організатори не українці і не росіяни, вони поляки і вони щиро співпереживають. І для них, як і для іншого світу, важливо дивитись, що трапилось дійсно, а не лише з одного боку."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Як мені здається, тут би хотіли побачити лише поховання українських військових, тільки зруйнування, спричинені російською артилерією. Але ж ми всі розуміємо, що якщо хтось думає, що війна це тільки шкода з одної сторони, то це абсурд"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Війна – це дуже велика біда для людей, котрі там мешкають. Вона чілпяє кожну людину і з одного, і з іншого боку. Але війна рано чи пізно скінчиться. Ми маємо розуміти, що ми мешкаємо в одній країні і не пройде таке, що ми туди прийдемо, всім скажемо: вдягайте вишиванки, розмовляйте українською. Треба шукати компроміси. Я це дуже добре розумію, хоч я втратив на цій війні багато друзів та знайомих, це і моя особиста війна, особиста трагедія. Але я був і по цей, і по той бік…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Хочу ще наголосити, що саме «завдяки» українській владі та українській прес-службі в зоні АТО ми бачимо так багато картинок по той бік (на окупованій частині території, – ред.). Тому що вони (прес-центр АТО, – ред.) не давали дозволу знімати."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"І коли я був кілька місяців з того боку під «прикриттям» російської прес-карти, поки мене не «викрили» українські ЗМІ, то мені давали дозвіл знімати все. Все, що я хотів. Бо російська пропаганда знає силу медіа, вона розуміє, що треба пускати медіа. І закордонні журналісти там мали змогу знімати все. А коли я почав знімати з української сторони, то я вже проїжджав на лінію фронту як військовий, на якихось броньовиках, з військовими, з якими домовлявся сам, бо прес-служба АТО возила всіх по одних і тих же блок-постах і показувала добру і гарну картинку."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Але у той же час були насправді місця, де військові по три місяці жили в окопах, їли тушонку, не маючи жодної гарячої їжі, тобто, трагічна ситуація була. Але влада не хотіла цього показувати!"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Ні закордонні, ні українські медіа не допускались. І лише певні окремі журналісти, яким було важливо туди потрапити, самі влаштовували собі ці поїздки, самі домовлялись про все з волонтерами чи батальйонами, чи військовими… І я з кількома фотографами був в Іловайському котлі. І в нас залишились фотографії, завдяки яким люди можуть бачити, що там було. Але є така трагедія як Савур Могила, звідки немає жодної фотографії, ми навіть не знаємо і не бачимо обличь цих наших героїв. І це тому, що нікого не хотіли туди пускати."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"А закордонні журналісти приїжджають, їм треба це якось показувати, а тут їм не дають, не пускають, показують якусь фігню… Вони думають, що журналісти, котрі вже по 20 років працюють на війні, поведуться на блок-пости оці випещені, де все добре? Вони їдуть на той бік, де їм кажуть «знімайте все», їдьте в морг, на передову, куди хочете: «Ти сам за себе відповідаєш, а якщо загинеш – то твоя справа». А з нашого боку це було можливим тільки з батальйонами і тільки завдяки ним."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Я так потрапив в Іловайський котел із батальйоном «Донбас». Я поїхав туди власним коштом, просто зі мною була камера. І от хлопці кажуть: «Ти ж розумієш, що ми вже в оточенні, і виїжджати ти будеш уже з нами». І так і вийшло, що на цій виставці я один, хто був ще з українського боку фронту. Звісно, тут представлена дуже маленька частина того, що у мене є. Але, власне, так і сталось, що світ бачить цю війну крізь трагедію та страждання тієї сторони, бо наша сторона дуже і дуже не хоче показувати, що дійсно відбувається."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А як довго Ви там були?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я 1 грудня вийшов на Майдан. Я три місяці був на Майдані під час усіх активних фаз, далі – Крим. Був десь місяць у Криму до «референдуму», коли анексія почалась. І коли почались події на Донбасі, окупація… Хоча це ж треба розуміти, що якби на Майдані дали б всім автомати, почалась би війна. Є збурені люди, котрі хочуть якихось змін. І якби їм дали не бруківку, а автомат, також почались би те саме. Але туди приїхали росіяни, дали зброю, було декілька спецзагонів, які координували це."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"І з нашого боку ж теж масла у вогонь підливали. Тож потім я там був аж до Іловайського котла. Потім я виїхав… і ще в грудні повертався уже з «Червоним Хрестом», їздив по зруйнованих містах з нашого боку. І з 2015 року я вирішив для себе, що не хочу туди повертатись, я вже не розумів для себе, що я там буду робити."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А чому? Війна ж продовжується…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Коли ти розумієш, що можеш сьогодні загинути, але водночас ти робиш важливу справу, то це одна річ. А коли ти повинен постійно сперечатись з якоюсь там владою, військовими, домовлятись… До того ж я просто «видохся» за цей рік. І за той час я багато працював зі світовими медіа, з українськими я зовсім не працюю, бо виникло багато розчарувань. І я зрозумів, що мені потрібна перерва."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Насправді, коли був Іловайськ, це дійсно було трагічно, бо нам по радіо чи телефону казали, що там парад готують, що міністр приймає нову зірку, а тут у хлопців 4 чи 5 БМП («бойова машина піхоти», – ред.), а на нас танк приїжджає прямою наводкою б’є…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"І жодного танку в нас нема, зв’язку нема, хлопці самі в кредит брали рації, щоб якось орієнтуватись у цих коробках. І є дуже багато є питань і ці всі трагічні програші, це програш не нашої армії мужньої, а нашої влади, яка, на жаль, себе не виправдала"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"І от за рік ти розумієш, що прес-служба робить усе, аби ти нічого не зняв, що українські медіа дуже часто цікавить тільки одна сторона, яка показує лише одну правду, а іншої правди бути не може, що інша правда – це проросійська пропаганда… Багато військових повертаються туди, бо тут у них немає іншого життя, бо ними ніхто не займається, держава ними не займається. Влада зовсім не розуміє, що люди, котрі були на війні, іншою мірою все вимірюють і їх треба до чогось долучатись, їм треба допомагати. І зламана душа, бо вона ж дійсно зламана, бо, коли ти бачиш як люди гинуть, як твої друзі гинуть, а сюди приїздиш, то тут дуже тяжко. І це проблема країни, а не тільки їх самих."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Вони там герої були, захищали країну, а тут приїжджають, не можуть вирішити якісь проблеми, їм ніхто не допомагає, то починаються різні неприємні речі… У мене відчуття, що у владі взагалі не розуміють того. І, не дай Бог нам третього Майдану. Бо перший був «лайт», революція у 2013 була така «мідіум», а «хардкор» буде наступний, бо будуть військові, для них стріляти – це вже нормально. І всі ми розуміємо, що зараз в Україні багато незареєстрованої зброї і, якщо почнеться хвиля, а влада потроху до цього йде, не знаю, зо може початись…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Але є й позитивні зрушення, бо частково військові потрапили і в нормальні ситуації, наприклад, помічниками депутатів абощо, тож якийсь дрібний відсоток присутній і у владі. І я дуже сподіваюсь, що це розумні люди, сподіваюсь, що вони все ж будуть розуміти, що єдині, кому ми можемо довіряти – це фронтовикам, тим, хто допомагав цим людям."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Ми можемо Донбас повернути, але силою, якщо й вийде, то просто патріотизм там буде інший, бо там лишились люди, які постраждали, зокрема, і від нашої армії. Так трапилось…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Будь-яка людина, що вміє думати, розуміє, що там можна було це все на початку ще згладити, що можна було зробити це все не так криваво, що просто хтось (навіть не з того боку, не з Росії) дуже-дуже хотів, що у нас почалась кривава м’ясорубка. І що влада може заробляти на війні, і що там ми втратили дуже багато патріотів, які могли би змінити країну, але пішли на фронт і загинули. Бо ж 2014 рік це була дійсно м’ясорубка, бійці просто в маршрутках заїжджали на фронт проти танків."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Як було на Майдані, коли снайпери стріляли в людей, які захищались якимись алюмінієвими щитами, то на сході 2014 року було те ж саме, але не сотні – тисячі. І коли з Іловайська виходили, то російська армія мала зв’язок і все, що треба, а у нас… Ми коли там були, то хлопці дзвонили по мобільному і наводили артилеристів, але ж ті все прослуховують, захотіли – заглушили мобільний зв’язок нашим – просто халепа. А люди воювали на патріотизмі. Я досі не розумію, як Муженко не те, що служить, як його не заарештували досі."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ваші світлини, представлені на виставці, дуже тяжкі. Як, власне, і більшість світлин на виставці. З людської саме позиції, наскільки важко так працювати – знімати смерть, похорон, травми…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Кожен документаліст, який працює з такими темами, шукає власні шляхи, як це подолати. Ще до війни я працював з тяжкими темами у документалістиці і багато бачив трагічних подій. Це важко, але я думаю, що мені легше, аніж людині, яка того не бачить. Контакт з постійною трагедією, смертю, змінює людину, відбувається переоцінка цінностей."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Якщо знову до виставки. То чи така подача на часі? Бо війна досі є…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я вважаю, що є культурна еліта, яка розуміє все, яка проти війни і розуміє, що ненависть породжує далі війну, помсту і тому подібне. Напевно, якщо привезти до Одеси виставку, реакція буде іншою. Там же через цей відсоток проросійський будуть зовсім інше пропагувати."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Знаєте, будь-які фотографії такі можуть бути розтлумачені кожною стороною по-своєму. Тут така реакція, в Одесі буде інша, а якщо в Москву її повезти, то скажуть, що це взагалі проукраїнська пропаганда."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"От є фото на виставці, де українські військові звільняють людей. Люди два тижні в дитсадку сиділи, в підвалі. Прийшли двоє хлопців військових, принесли їжу, якісь ліки. І люди там плачуть і підпис, що військові їх звільнили. А у Москві то показати, так скажуть, що вони прийшли людей розстрілювати, бо військові з автоматами, а люди плачуть. Кожен буде тлумачити по-своєму. Це постійна суперечка."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"І коли голова ЛОР говорив, що він не вірить, що військові вбили ту дівчину в Краматорську, це ж про мою фотографію мова. Я там був і це бачив. І якщо він думає, що українська армія нікого не вбиває, то, значить, він не був на війні. Там таке трапляється… І я не оцінюю – це погано чи добре. Але ми мусимо розуміти, що крім військових страждають і мирні люди. Насправді, я думаю, що такі виставки треба показувати дещо пізніше, коли рани вже загоються. Бо я розумію, наскільки тяжко приходити і на це дивитись."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Але невже хтось розраховує, що весь світ має жаліти Україну, знати досконало історію України… І без того світ багато для нас зробив"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"На Заході усі розуміють становище ,усі проти агресії Росії, али вимагати від поляків, щоб вони показували тільки проукраїнську виставку – безглуздо."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Дуже прикро й соромно, що у нас є діти, яким ця організація, цей проект допомагають. Бо ж на них тут ставлять на них хрест, а поляки збирають кошти, забирають ту дитину, лікують її, і виліковують. Вони сімом дітям допомогли вже. А у Львові всі прийшли, покричали свої патріотичні лозунги і майже ніхто копійки не дав. І це дуже-дуже соромно, бо українці хочуть, аби всі нам допомагали, а самі собі допомагати не хочуть."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Sonntag speech about \"Culture of Confrontation\" | english, 2019","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":null,"hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":true,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"5:4","type":"index","summary":{},"text_content2":{},"alignment":"Center","index_caption_enabled":false,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"volker-sonntag-speech-about-culture-of-confrontation-english-2019","cover_media_fit":"contain","part_of_stacked_page":false,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"M","index_grid_item_grow":false,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2019-12-22T04:27:44Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":true,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-22T04:24:36Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/2","published":true,"text_columns":"One","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"M","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":-1744830464,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":true,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":false,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"L","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"publications/essays-interviews/volker-sonntag-speech-about-culture-of-confrontation-english-2019","imagegrid_columns":"M","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":true,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2019-12-22T04:27:44Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"M","slideshow_ratio":"1:1","id":"9e270bcd-77a5-4469-80da-0a75b380be3d","subtype":"text","slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":"d6a6b9ad-bd4c-4994-bb6c-6d7a220dc4f2","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Center","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"M","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":true,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},"text_content1":{"ops":[{"insert":"\n\nIn winter 2013/2014 the Independence Square in Kyiv - the Ukrainian word for place is \"maidan\" - became a focal point of world events.\n\nAfter the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 states such as Ukraine were in one political tug-of-war between Russia and the EU. The economic situation of the general population had worsened. The state was weakened, a network of oligarchs and old party networks had taken control over public property and the media. They used the political parties for their purposes, unemployment increased and corruption flourished. In November 2013, demonstrations began on the Maidan against these conditions. The reason was that President Yanukovych had obeyed pressure from Moscow not to sign an association agreement with the EU. The protesters behaved peacefully, concerts took place, often there was a veritable festival atmosphere. Maxim Dondyuk, who lived in Kyiv, was there from the beginning.\n\nThen the situation escalated. On the night of December 1st, the demonstrators were dispersed by a special police unit with brutal force. Increasingly, the situation got out of control, public buildings were occupied by protesters and barricades built. On 18 February 2014 the Militia shot with live ammunition. In the end there were over 120 dead and countless wounded. On 21 February the conflict ended with an internationally signed contract, Russian friendly President Yanukovych fled to Moscow.\n\nHot spots such as Euromaidan, as it is called today, attract hundreds of media people, always in search of the spectacular picture but without the time to deal with the backgrounds. A cameraman working for an American news channel told that within two weeks he had worked in five countries on three continents. In our media society information has become a highly profitable commodity that no longer is being measured by the criteria of truth and lie but by their attractiveness - they have to sell well by satisfying the sensation-seeking public.\n\nDondyuk noted that about 200 photographers were on the field, barely one spoke the language or understood the history of his country. Their inner distance was visible for everyone because mostly their cameras were equipped with long telephoto lenses by which you can zoom near what happens far away without being close.\n\nIn contrast to their working routine Dondyuk's reportages are characterized by empathy and compassion. He is interested in people. For three months he lived with the demonstrators on the Maidan. Instead of using a telephoto lens he works consistently with a 35mm wide-angle lens so that for a close-up he must get close to the people he is photographing. This gives his pictures their strong emotional intensity that we deeply feel.\n\nHe is not even a meter away of the three praying women or the three soldiers in this room whom a protester is offering flowers. Each face of the three women touches us with an individual expression of grief, sorrow, and pleading to God. Here Dondyuk has created an iconic picture of pain, such as Matthias Grünewald in the Isenheim Altarpiece brought to timeless expression with the three mourning figures at the foot of the crucifixion.\n\nAt the same time, Dondyuk combines such closeness with respect. In the last room of our exhibition he does not aim the camera at the faces or injuries of the wounded and dead but on the priest, the paramedics and the relatives. Their feelings affect us emotionally much more than a voyeuristic portrayal of the horror.\n\nSuch proximity to the motif creates an emotional impact that can be experienced best in the large formats in our exhibition. The four heavily armed, muzzled militiamen in the next room who roll away an oil barrel are moving straight towards the photographer, their eyes meet him and thus us. Dondyuk paid his tribute for such proximity with two injuries by rubber bullets.\n\n\"This revolution has changed not only myself  but also my photography and visual language,” he says. \"Of course I was on the side of protesters but it was also important for me to know what on the other side of the barricades was going on. I did not want to show the good guys and the bad guys but the confrontation of two different philosophies of the world - \"the culture of confrontation\".\n\nThis is how Dondyuk's artistic intentions have changed in the course of this project. He was no longer concerned with documenting the actual event, instead he wanted to work out its universal human character, as Shakespeare did in his historical dramas like Macbeth, King Lear or Richard II.\n\nTherefore his relation to the event has changed. He goes on distance and shows a panorama from a high perspective. One can look at these scenes as human moodscapes, like paintings of Bruegel in which due to the wide depth of focus of the wide-angle-objective we can observe unbelievably many details. These pictures are no longer made for the small-format magazines but for large formats, as in our exhibition.\n\nNow the aesthetic design becomes very important. Dondyuk photographs digitally and edits files on the computer specifically for their aesthetic effect.\n\nA central design element becomes the Light. The external circumstances are already spectacular. Fire and smoke of burning barricades, foggy steam from water cannons, reflections on the wet ground and the low winter sun, which intensifies shadows, contrasts and plasticity create highly dramatic moods like Baroque paintings from Turner, Caravaggio or Hollywood fantasy movies. The human drama becomes a drama of light.\n\nThe artist also makes the Light shine as a spiritual power as in paintings by Rembrandt. Have a look at the light of the candles the three women are holding in their hands and see how it is being repeated in the dome of the Michaelskirche during the funeral, but also on the tops of the tents.\n\nThe protesters built barricades with burning car tires and buses. Fire has always been a symbol of revolution. In the next room emerges a black shadow figure who bears a striking resemblance to the allegory of freedom in Delacroix's revolutionary painting \"Freedom Leads the People\". But in another picture, a single man stares shocked in a fiery inferno of burning buses. Such scenes are reminiscent of gothic paintings by Bruegel or Hieronymus Bosch of the Last Judgment where volcanoes break out of the earth and burn down houses, mountains, and seas to mark the end of humanity. \n\nAt the same time fire also visualizes what happens inside the people. They are transformed from a self-determined individual into an element of a mass. In his great study \"Mass and Power\" Nobel Prize winner Elias Canetti analyses the fire as a mass symbol. I quote: \"Mass symbols express the essential properties of the mass. The fire is sudden, everywhere, it is contagious and insatiable. The mass also forms and inflames suddenly by an external event, few can resist its contagion, they want to keep going and are hardly controllable anymore. The crowd feels attracted from fire and hurries to the scene of the fire, in front of which the individuals feel connected and close to all the others.\" This rapturous, almost ritualistic mood of the mass in front of a big fire Dondyuk recorded in a picture in the next room.\n\nThe antithesis of fire is the coldness of the ice, which means the death of all life, stagnation, and endpoint. Because of the winter and the water cannons, ice was everywhere on the Maidan in impressive formations. In C.D.Friedrich's painting “the lost hope” the ship stranded in the Arctic Ocean can be seen as a symbol of the lost hope for democratic freedom in the era of political restoration after Napoleon's defeat. In Dondyuk’s Maidan pictures ice could also be interpreted as a metaphor of the political and social situation in Ukraine which the protesters try to melt by their fire.\n\nIt is no coincidence that \"Songs of Ice and Fire\" is the title of the original book for the most successful American television series \"Game of Thrones\", which settles in a fictitious medieval world and thematizes the eternal struggle for power and Good and Evil. It has been always the same pictures that accompany our human history: the burning of Troy, of Jerusalem, the old Rome, Constantinople, the world wars, the pictures from Iraq, Syria. This timeless ubiquity of violence we also experience in Dondyuk's photographs. With their helmets, big shields and rubber truncheons the militia could be moved from the Maidan directly into the Middle Ages and the demonstrators with their wooden beating sticks and construction helmets could be directly related to the peasant wars.\n\nThe militiamen with their big shields form human walls as we know from Roman and medieval battle orders. These scenes convey what Canetti has analyzed as the essence of the mass: The police have lost their self-responsibility and individuality and are just a number written on their helmets. Their identity has been reduced to enforcers of an outside command. But the demonstrators have lost their individuality and self-control, too. They became part of the angry flames of destructive fire which they inflame as black shadow ghosts with Molotov cocktails and burning car tires.\n\nWith the pictures of this exhibition, Dondyuk has dissolved the border between documentation and art. Documentation has to be truthful and objective: This event happened exactly as the photographer has photographed it. But what is a reality? For Dondyuk reality became translucent on the Maidan. He says, \"I suddenly saw no revolution on Independence Square anymore, in front of me opened Battle scenes from legends and fairytales. Euromaidan became one of the visually most beautiful revolutions, like scenes in a Hollywood movie. The border between reality and fiction disappeared for me.” This personal subjective experience has guided him in his recordings.\n\nSo did he distort reality? Did he play down the terrible by its aestheticization? What difference does it make for us viewers whether the terrible is real or fiction and carefully staged by a painter or film director? Is there beauty in the terrible - volcanic eruptions, thunderstorms, forest fires, the planes in the World Trade Center in NY? - that fascinates us deeply? These are questions that have to be discussed in detail and controversially why we cannot deal with it here and now.\n\nBut what we can say is that Dondyuk´s photographs have gained new and complex dimensions through his devotion to art. What is it that makes a good work of art? Art arises from a touching experience that is aesthetically so designed that through the artwork also the viewers are being touched. It must be designed so that it provides us with many references and associations which we can connect with our personal and cultural experiences and those from the collective unconscious. \n\nI want to conclude with my thoughts about two pictures in this room which touch me very much: The first is about the motif of the candle as a symbol of life and hope as you can see it in the image of the three praying women in this room. This motif is being resumed in the next room. There it is a young protester holding a Molotov cocktail, a devoted expression on his face, like a sacral candle in his hands that another man just ignites. This young man is outshone by a bright, aura-like light, as we know it from paintings by Rembrandt. There are so many ambiguous meanings in this picture that one could write a short story about it.\n\nThe young cellist of the Dakh Daughters Band is on her way to play a concert on the Maidan. With her face painted white, her huge eyes, the long headscarf and the fur coat she appears as a being from another world, reminiscent of angelic representations in medieval paintings. The cello box on her back makes one think of wings, but also of a person she carries. She moves towards a doorway in the boarded-off space, into one other world, looking in our direction. Iconographically it is the motif of a guardian angel, a shaman, a spiritual leader like she appears in the guise of Beatrice in Dante's “Divine Comedy” who leads him through the nine celestial spheres. For me, she has protected Dondyuk on his way on the Maidan.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Максим Дондюк – о войне, Майдане, Украине, России и стене, сдвигающейся на восток."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Фотограф Максим Дондюк снимал Майдан и войну на востоке Украины, с обеих сторон. Он может рассказать, как ему грозили расстрелом пророссийские сепаратисты, как он был в окружении под Иловайском и как ему мешали работать украинские штабисты."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Накануне второй годовщины победы Майдана, бегства президента Виктора Януковича и последовавших за этим российской аннексией Крыма и войной в Донбассе Радио Свобода публикует еще неизданные фотографии Максима Дондюка."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Он родился на западе Украине, в Хмельницкой области, в небольшом городке Славута, затем вместе с семьей (отец Дондюка – военный) переехал на юг, в Херсонскую область, в Новую Каховку, где и прошла большая часть его детства."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Дондюк рассказывает, что фотографии его учила мать, описывает, что сидел с ней в “красной” комнате, называет советские камеры: “Зенит”, “Смена”. Позже он стал ходить в кружок фотографии. И, наконец, уже в 24 года, после армии, в Харькове, работая поваром, он вдруг вернулся к фотографии, занимался ею все свободное время, читал книги по фотоискусству, экспериментировал. Через год он бросил работу, стал профессиональным фотографом, переехал в Киев. Поначалу, говорит Дондюк, речь не шла о документалистике:"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Вначале я смотрел в сторону каких-то студийных вещей, пейзажных вещей, занимался сферическими панорамами – это очень технически сложная вещь тогда была. По сути дела, что такое репортаж в хорошем смысле, я уже узнал, когда переехал в Киев. Потому что в Харькове очень сильная художественная школа, все, что я там видел из репортажей, – это очень скучные газетные вещи, новости, которые никак не вдохновляли. В то время я бы очень удивился, если бы мне кто-то сказал, что я буду документалистом."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Как вы стали документалистом? Каким образом вы стали автором проекта про туберкулезных больных, за который получили призы?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Это был первый серьезный проект. До этого я переехал в Киев, работал в новостном агентстве. Я долгое время ездил в командировки по всей стране. Это было вначале захватывающе, съемки были на темы от политики, футбола и села до митингов и Верховной Рады. Это хороший опыт и колоссальная школа, но через несколько лет мне стало скучно, я сильно погрузился в документальную фотографию, очень был вдохновлен. В тот момент я понял, что хочу заняться более глубоким проектом на какую-то социальную тематику. Через какое-то время я пришел к проблеме туберкулеза, о котором сам тогда ничего толком не знал. Мне тогда казалось, что я управлюсь за месяц или два, что это не так сложно и займет не так много времени, но получилось, что этот проект полностью засосал меня – такая черная дыра, в которую я попал и которая полностью изменила мою жизнь. Я провел два года, снимая этот проект, больше ничем не занимался. Жизнь, которая была до этого проекта, полностью исчезла, работа, семья, отношения, многие друзья, мое мировоззрение. Человек, который после этого проекта образовался, – это уже был совсем другой человек. Поэтому для меня это оказалось проектом становления как другой личности. Для меня фотография – не работа, не хобби, это философия, я ее очень сильно за это люблю, что она позволяет мне меняться благодаря жизни с людьми в других ситуациях, в которые я не смог бы попасть, если бы не был документалистом."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вам не страшно было работать с туберкулезными больными?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Не страшно, наверное, только сумасшедшим. Вначале не было сильного страха, я понимал, что делаю. Были вспышки паники, конечно, но они быстро устранялись, я делал для себя выводы, решал – продолжаю я это делать или останавливаюсь. И продолжал. Я пытался побороться со стигмой, существующей в обществе, с предвзятостью, с неосведомленностью об этой проблеме. Я сам был частью этого общества, я тоже считал, что, если человек переболел туберкулезом, он чуть ли не заразный. Я абсолютно ничего не понимал. Это был большой опыт, потому что туберкулез – это не война, но ты постоянно сталкиваешься с медленной смертью. Контакт с такой жизнью сильно сказывается на тебе. К концу проекта я понимал, что я теряю ощущение реальности, у меня начались проблемы с реальной жизнью, когда я возвращался. Я уволился, я потерял семью, мне негде было жить в Киеве, я в какой-то момент стал жить в больницах, потому что мне некуда было возвращаться. Может быть, на фоне всего, что я снимал, мои проблемы не казались какими-то значимыми. Через два года я стал понимать, что теряю грань, что я живу только той жизнью, абсолютно не понимаю, что происходит в другой жизни. У психологов называется выгорание."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Но вы вернулись в обычную жизнь?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Конечно, вернулся, все нормально. Просто какой-то период адаптации был, так же, как когда ты возвращаешься с фронта. У меня были друзья, которые болели туберкулезом, есть люди, которые умерли, я был у них на похоронах. Для меня важно, когда я куда-то уезжаю, стараться, чтобы я был там не гостем, чтобы это было полное погружение, чтобы я был частью того, что происходит. Я уезжал, допустим, в Донецкую, Луганскую или Херсонскую область, потом в Крым, договаривался с областным врачом о том, что я хочу у них снимать, – все это на личных контактах, я не работал в СМИ, у меня не было ксив, даже камеры не было, друзья заняли. Некоторые врачи посылали, а некоторые говорили: круто, молодец, что тебе надо? Мне надо было разрешение на съемку и чтобы я мог переночевать, поесть, у меня нет денег гостиницу снимать, неделю давайте поживу в этой больнице, неделю в той. Иногда снимал квартиру в том же городке, дешево выходило. С тюрьмами точно так же договаривался. Они говорили: пробей хоть какое-то разрешение, чтобы твоя фамилия была, а мы тут тебе уже покажем все, что можем."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Давайте поговорим о Майдане. Два года назад он победил. Вы осмыслили то, что произошло, спустя два года?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Мне кажется, я и тогда все понимал, и моя точка зрения не изменилась. Для меня то, что произошло на Майдане, – это Берлинская стена, которая пала, – она просто продолжает свое продвижение к Красной площади, меняет географическое расположение. На Майдане в центре Киева произошло противостояние между двумя абсолютно разными культурами, двумя разными пластами восприятия и мировоззрения. Это не означает, что были молодые против старого поколения. Просто одна культура – это попытка быть независимыми, попытка изменить жизнь, стать частью… – я бы не сказал частью Европы, мы понимаем, что у Украины много проблем и стать частью Европы очень сложно, – но попытаться жить самостоятельно, без навязанной точки зрения, жить, как нам нужно жить. Другая культура ностальгирует, хочет вернуть былые времена, ей неинтересно это другое будущее. Мой проект назывался “Культура конфронтации”, это противостояние двух абсолютно разных культур было в Берлине, Чехия до этого, “Солидарность” и так далее. Стена движется, и влияние России постепенно сдвигается, вот здесь и произошел такой раскол. Потому что многие люди – те, кто в возрасте, – запуганы. А молодежь, которая родилась в 1991 году, в независимой Украине, они вообще не понимали, когда им говорили, мол, мы хотим Советский Союз или бывшую империю, – они говорили: я не знаю, что это, я родился в Украине, я не понимаю, о чем вы. Для меня это противостояние абсолютно разных культур. Нельзя сказать, что одна хорошая, а другая плохая, они смотрят просто совсем в разные стороны."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы работали в Донбассе фактически военным корреспондентом. Как вы относитесь к тем, кто, грубо говоря, на другой стороне?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Первые несколько месяцев я был на Донбассе нелегально, делал вид, будто я русский корреспондент, пока меня наши доблестные украинские СМИ не вскрыли. Я там находился с русскими ксивами как москвич, акал, бекал. Для меня было важно находиться там с людьми, которые оккупируют мою страну, с российскими флагами, я хотел все это видеть не через телевизор, а лично. Я видел, как сепаратисты, оккупанты, которые приезжали с оружием уже из Крыма, захватывают мою страну. И бывало, что киевское правительство усугубляло взрывоопасную ситуацию, чего можно было избежать. К людям, которые взяли там оружие, конечно, я отношусь негативно, потому что я сам сидел под обстрелом российской артиллерии, я потерял друзей и знакомых из-за людей с российскими флагами. У меня личные претензии, потому что захватили часть моей страны. Меня допрашивали, меня вели расстреливать, мне на голову надевали мешок, я оказывался в печальных, плачевных ситуациях. Поэтому у меня как у гражданина Украины и просто как у человека, на которого наводили автоматы эти люди, к ним большие претензии."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"На самом деле вся ситуация стандартная – это повторение того, что было в Приднестровье, в Осетии, все по кругу идет. Просто жалко людей, которые поверили и вышли, увидев, что Крым так мирно присоединили, – они подумали, что их присоединят так же. Это обычные люди, у них нет даже загранпаспорта, они говорят: я в Киеве никогда не был, я в Ростов езжу на базар. У них абсолютно свой мир. В Луганской и Донецкой области с флагами “ДНР” и “ЛНР” выходили с 2005 года, и правительство в Киеве никак не реагировало на это, никто не поднимал шум. Эти флаги придумали не в 2014 году. Конечно, Россия помогла вооружением и людьми, которые это все захватывали. Но то, что люди на той территории и в Крыму были настроены против Украины, – это большая проблема 20-летней политики Украины по отношению к этим людям. Они просто не захотели жить в этой стране и помогли оккупантам и людям с оружием."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​У вас был проект в Крыму о детском военно-патриотическом лагере, который тоже раскололся на проукраинскую и пророссийскую части."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Сейчас я работаю над первым документальным фильмом, который был снят за несколько месяцев до Майдана, – именно про этот лагерь “Крым-Сичь”. Уже в этом фильме четко видно, что эта проблема не из-за Майдана, она существовала, просто Майдан был последней точкой, когда каждый должен был сказать, на чьей он стороне. Конфликт существовал, и его не гасили. Почему они там не встали на сторону Украины? Там трудяги, в шахту спустились-поднялись, многие в Киеве не были за всю свою жизнь. Вот он живет в Макеевке или в Луганске, он вообще не был никогда в Киеве. Он в этой пропаганде погряз, он не знает, что происходит. Это проблема страны, почему туда не доносили, почему не помогали. В новостях про Луганскую область вообще не вспоминали никогда, пока не началась война. Как про Северный полюс. А там уже флаги “ЛНР” были, митинги, жесткие праздники 9 мая, которые ничем не отличались от того, что сейчас, такой же бред происходил и раньше."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А что за история, когда вас на расстрел выводили?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Эта в Славянске было. Я вошел настолько близко в контакт, что мог заходить в кабинет к Пономареву, такой мэр был, я знал всех, кто захватывал Краматорск и Славянск. У меня были два друга, действительно москвичи, российские корреспонденты, хорошие друзья. Они на самом деле мне жизнь спасали намного больше, чем многие украинские СМИ, из-за которых потом у меня было много проблем. Они прикрылись русскими паспортами, а я липовыми корочками, мы типа втроем москвичи, – они знали, что я не москвич, просили меня, чтобы я не полностью сливал, что происходит, потому что тогда головы всем снесут. Я постоянно выставлял фотографии в “Инстаграме”: заявление делает Аваков (министр внутренних дел Украины. – Прим.), что все блокпосты в Славянске уничтожены, Национальная гвардия полностью захватила Славянск. Украинские СМИ тогда врали так, что у меня уши заворачивались. Я ехал, снимал на телефон все блокпосты, где стоят сепаратисты, и это выставлял в “Инстаграме” – типа, чуваки, это не так. Когда украинская армия переходила на их сторону, я снимал номера БМП, все время показывал, что очень много врут украинские каналы. Так как я там был из украинцев, то украинские СМИ начали делать материалы, где какой-то журналист выходит на черном фоне и говорит: я веду спецрепортаж из Славянска. Называют мое реальное имя, фамилию, которое у меня в российских удостоверениях, и говорят: вот он нам сообщил. Начинают нести какой-то бред, показывать мои фотографии с бойцами, которых я снимаю в “Инстаграм”, начинают говорить: он нам сообщил, что они спецагенты ГРУ. Из-за этих действий меня арестовывали, выводили на расстрел, но, как оказалось потом, – просто пугали, все было холостое. Мешок на голову, 6 часов интересных разговоров, но все закончилось хорошо."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы наблюдали вблизи так называемое “ДНР”, у вас какое впечатление – это идейные люди?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Поначалу все идейные из местного населения, потому что они хотят быть частью России, они увидели, что в Крыму произошло. А эта верхушка, что воевала, там приезжают те, кто в Чечне воевал, в Осетии воевал. “Стрелок” (Игорь Стрелков, бывший министр обороны так называемой “ДНР”. – Прим.) воевал в Боснии. Знаете, есть такие туристы военные. Они за идею, но за какую, хрен поймешь, просто, наверное, повоевать. У каждого свой “русский мир” в голове был – я не могу сказать, что это не за идею. Точно не за то, чтобы им заплатили кучу бабла. Большинство – это люди, которые приехали из России, из Крыма, с вдохновением, азартом, много местных. Но были наркоманы, алкоголики, которые за 300 рублей стояли на блокпостах, – но если видели БМП, они все бросали и уезжали. На самом деле это очень отработанная система, которую Россия использовала много раз не только в Украине, все повторяется и повторяется."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А как вы работали с “украинской” стороны?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Когда я с “той” стороны снимал, я один раз попал под обстрел украинской армии и понял, что если меня убьют на Донбассе, то я умру со стороны России, буду объявлен сепаратистом, мне не очень этого хотелось. Я решил попытаться снимать со стороны украинской армии и столкнулся с колоссальным сопротивлением пресс-службы АТО, украинского правительства и всех, кого только можно. Если ты находишься на той стороне, у тебя полностью зеленый свет на все, а с нашей стороны тебе все запрещают. Ты приезжаешь куда-нибудь к бойцам, как это было в начале, бойцы говорят: да. А пресс-служба присылает за тобой и тебя увозят. Были батальоны такие, как “Донбасс”, “Айдар”, “Правый сектор”, с которыми намного проще это все решалось. В какой-то момент, когда пресс-служба опять ничего не давала снимать, я сказал Саше (фотограф Александр Гляделов. – РС), что знаю командира Семенченко, поедем в Донбасс, посмотрим, что там можно делать. Так сложилось, что мы приехали перед Иловайскими событиями (когда подразделения украинской армии попали в окружение. – РС) и вместе с ними поехали в Иловайск, проезжали через все блокпосты вместе с ними на их машинах. На блокпостах никто не знал, что мы пресса. Да и слабо можно назвать нас прессой, потому что мы нигде не работали, никто нам за это не платил, ехали сами, а потом уже как выйдет. Документировали все."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Не мне судить, из-за чьих ошибок попали в окружение, как и все бойцы, ждали, надеялись. К сожалению, все закончилось плачевно для очень многих, кто там был. Нам с Сашей повезло, Сашу ранило через несколько дней после того, как мы туда зашли, не тяжело. Мы рядом были, меня не задело, ему задело ногу, я ему оказывал медицинскую помощь. Очень много было раненых, медиков было всего пара человек, они занимались, в основном, бойцами, я Саше помогал, потом его увезли вместе с ранеными. Смешная история была, у Саши, когда его увозили, все пленки, которые он сделал в Иловайске, выпали. И какой-то боец принес мне все его пленки, когда Сашу уже увезли. Я думаю: вот прикол, теперь мне нужно выбраться из “котла” с моими фотографиями, еще и с Сашиными. Мне повезло, я уехал раньше, за пару дней до того, как всех расстреляли. Нас выпустили на автобусе, обстреливали минометами, но лобового сопротивления, чтобы кто-то вышел прямо на какой-то коробочке, БМП или танке, – не было, хотя за день до нас такой же автобус расстреляли. Мне нужно было уезжать, у меня была выставка о Майдане во Франции, у меня был уже самолет, меня даже совесть мучила, что я не хотел уезжать, хотел до конца быть. Но я вынужден был ехать с бойцами, которые вывозили раненых, мы уезжали на микроавтобусе. Я помню, был парень с перебитым позвоночником, я его поддерживал, потому что на кочках мы очень сильно съехали, по нам минометом сильно шарахали. Он, помню, держал гранату в руках и говорил: “Макс, без обид, но если засада, я ее на хер взрываю”. Так мы 10 километров по красной линии ехали, три бойца были или четыре, раненые и я, выбирались оттуда. Через несколько дней много погибло парней."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы описывали, как вы сидели в Иловайске, потом выходили оттуда, потому что у вас самолет во Францию на выставку. Это очень сильный перепад – сидеть под бомбежкой, а потом во Франции выставка. Вы как чувствуете себя в этой вилке? Где вы больше себя ощущаете как дома?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"На самом деле все было психологически сложно, хотя я не понимал это тогда. Мои друзья после этой выставки повезли на Лазурный берег, где-то в Сан-Тропе или в Ницце. Мне друг говорит: “Как ты себя чувствуешь? Пять дней назад ты был под артобстрелом”. Эти все синдромы послевоенные не чувствуются, на тот момент я не понимал, что у меня какой-то перепад. Сейчас я осознаю, что, конечно, очень нервный, психованный был, очень сильно сказывается. Где я себя лучше чувствую? Мне кажется, я себя лучше чувствую в своей жизни, моя жизнь там, где я нахожусь. Я знаю многих фотографов, которые, уезжая с войны, не могут нормально жить мирной жизнью, возвращаются на войну. Я к таким не отношусь, потому что мне есть чем заняться и на гражданке. Я не считаю себя военным фотографом. Я был на войне, потому что я захотел там побывать. Не потому, что я репортер, который должен это снимать. Это произошло в моей стране, это история моей страны, я начал ее снимать с Майдана, я был в Крыму, потом я был на Донбассе, изначально принципиально поехал на ту сторону. Для меня это моя история, я был со всех сторон. Это мой опыт. Сейчас я туда не возвращаюсь, потому что я не понимаю, что я буду там делать. Я там был в тот момент, я себя чувствовал комфортно, когда я был там, сейчас я себя чувствую комфортно не на войне."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы снимали на Майдане, вы снимали украинских солдат на войне, это часто сильное воодушевление, движение духа. Трагические события были на Майдане и на войне, но без сомнения, в этом было что-то возвышающее. У вас сейчас ощущение, что это прошло, ушло куда-то, это воодушевление людей, которые меняли Украину, отстаивали ее?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Все это вдохновение должно подпитываться чем-то, на самом деле оно сейчас держится на энтузиастах, но это не благодаря, а вопреки тому, что происходит. К сожалению, то, за что вышли люди, произошло в очень минимальном процентном соотношении по отношению к тому, что хотелось бы. Во власти осталось много старых людей, система не очень изменилась. Старая система другими способами пытается . Старой системой я называю не систему Януковича: система Порошенко, система Тимошенко, система всех политиков, которые были тогда, – они ничем не отличаются. Новая власть в виде новых людей, которые пришли после Майдана, – это очень малое процентное соотношение, мы бы хотели, чтобы все произошло намного быстрее. К сожалению, теперь нам остается надеяться на то, что постепенно молодая кровь будет вытеснять старую. Но старая система очень борется, есть очень большое сопротивление, и это очень тяжело. У меня много знакомых, которые ушли из бизнеса, пошли в политику или в министерство какое-то, у них были очень хорошие зарплаты, а там им дали зарплату пять тысяч гривен, 200 долларов. Они два года работают, говорят: у меня все сбережения закончились. Я работаю, я депутат, в министерстве, и у меня нет денег. И им говорят: мы все ждем, пока вы устанете, уйдете, мы дальше будет опять делать, что делали. К сожалению, сейчас единственный шаг – это медленно, постепенно молодая свежая кровь должна вытеснять этот старый режим. Флаги поменялись, а мировоззрение наверху у людей не поменялось. Я не говорю про всех, я считаю, что одна треть, хотя бы одна треть – это люди, которые пытаются изменить страну. Но существуют две трети, которые не хотят ничего менять, они не приспособлены к новому европейскому государству. Все бы хотели, чтобы они собрались со своими деньгами и куда-нибудь укатили, чтобы молодое поколение, интеллигенция вела бы страну в какие-то новые времена. Многие люди возвращались из Европы сюда, чтобы что-то изменить, но я знаю сейчас тенденцию – они уезжают, потому что разочарованы, что ничего не изменилось."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я хочу вернуться к тому, с чего вы начали, к этому движению стены. Стена, которая рухнула в Берлине, на Майдане ее частично обрушили, и она…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Сдвинулась в Донбасс."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Движется на восток. Я хотел вас спросить, как вы относитесь к России, чем это движение стены, с вашей точки зрения, закончится?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Это очень сложный вопрос, потому что у меня в России есть много друзей, с которыми у нас очень хорошие отношения. До всего, что случилось, я часто приезжал в Россию, был в Москве. Это больше похоже на помешательство. Я отношусь хорошо к людям, которых знаю в России, а к общей массе у меня плохое отношение, потому что они поддерживают то, что делает их правительство. Они молчат, боятся, не хотят ничего говорить. У меня, наверное, больше не ненависть, а разочарование или непонимание, как можно не видеть, что происходит. Потому что ощущение, что это возвращение назад, полностью в Советский Союз, и люди счастливы от того, что это происходит. Люди довольны, люди поддерживают войну, люди максимально разжигают ненависть – все эти лозунги, призывы и то, как они реагировали, говорило о том, что проблема не в Майдане. Стоило только назвать украинцев фашистами, сразу же большая часть населения России это поддержала. Это говорит о том, что эта мысль в голове культивировалась, Малороссия, все остальное – было уже в головах, это не могло появиться за одну неделю. Отношение истинное… Мне кажется, большая проблема россиян – это империализм, они хотят вернуть свою империю, свое влияние на соседние государства. Они не могут найти ничего другого, как сделать это силой, и в этом именно моя претензия к России. Они убивают мой народ. Как можно рассказать детям, у которых стоят дома фотографии их родителей, отцов, которые были убиты людьми с российскими флагами, что это наша братская страна? Та война, которая произошла, уже нас разделила. На самом деле это за год, за два, даже за пять, за десять лет – не разрешится, потому что эта война затронула каждого. У каждого кто-то из знакомых погиб, или пришел раненый, или был на фронте, или он был там сам. На самом деле это глобальная проблема, потому что люди потеряли близких. И с той стороны та же ситуация."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А про стену?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Так получилось, что в Украине сейчас процентное соотношение людей – еще до Майдана было – немного другое, они хотят другой жизни, не хотят возвращаться в ту жизнь с Советским Союзом, в те времена. А на Донбассе – люди, которые отстаивают это. Стена – это граница империализма, она сдвигается. Это просто геополитическое влияние. Сейчас Россия не имеет такого влияния на Украину – на ту часть Украины, которая контролируется украинской армией, украинским правительством, – как она влияла до Майдана. Эта стена – влияние России на соседние государства, влияние на умы. Потому что когда человек перестает смотреть только российское телевидение, только российские новости, то он начинает иметь другую точку зрения. Мы все думаем, что у нас у всех есть свобода, мы можем зайти в интернет, все увидеть, все почитать, но большинство людей, что в России, что в Украине, включают телевизор и смотрят то, что там показывают, слушают, читают газеты, общаются. Когда я был в Крыму и в Донбассе, то порой доходило до смешного, люди рассказывают такие сказки. Я был свидетелем какой-то ситуации, а люди через час уже все настолько перевирали и в это верили, какой-то “Правый сектор”, который кому-то отрезал голову, сидит где-то в погребе. В чем Россия хороша, так это в информационной войне. На самом деле вся война России в Украине началась благодаря СМИ. У меня иногда много вопросов к СМИ, потому что люди верят."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Interview by Philip Dotsenko | russian, 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Дондюк"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Talktome разносторонне интересуется искусством, и искусство фотографии для нас является одним из самых впечатляющих и насыщенных. "},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"},{"insert":"Мы поговорили с Максимом Дондюком — фотографом, чьи проекты и принты — это нечто большее, чем просто фиксирование отдельных моментов. "},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Привет. Рад, что получилось тебя настигнуть перед очередным путешествием. Далеко уезжаешь?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"В Грузию. На фестиваль KOLGA TBILISI PHOTO, там будет выставка победителей и финалистов конкурса. Пока еще непонятно, кто победил. Все это будет длиться дней 5, а потом еще остаемся на пару недель – мы никогда не были в Грузии, а тут такая возможность."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А «мы» — это…?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я с Ирой – это моя невеста, она же и является моим артист-менеджером. В последний год она занимается вопросами по переписке, логистике, продаже принтов. В общем, она взяла на себя тяжелый удар. Я занимаюсь творчеством, она занимается бизнесом. Я очень не люблю онлайн общение – это выбивает меня из колеи, мне хочется больше натуральной жизни."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Может ли художник сочетать в себе два этих мира – творчество и бизнес?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я сочетал до того, как встретил Иру, и это было очень тяжело."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Другого выхода просто не было?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Другого выхода просто не существует. В идеале, мы все равно сейчас ищем известного куратора или известную галерею, если мы говорим о работе в documentaryart, когда автор настроен на презентацию своих работ в галерейном и музейном пространстве. Маленькие галереи, которые на нас выходили, меня не устраивают, потому что этот объем работы мы и сами тянем, а с крупными галереями все сложно –туда не зовут кого попало, как и в крупные коллективы, вроде Magnum, которые зарабатывают больше на продаже принтов. Нужно работать и работать. В последний год я радикально изменил свой вектор – работа с журналами и медиа ушла на второй план. Я работаю только с проверенными людьми и с проверенными изданиями, с интересными изданиями и хорошими гонорарами, но абсолютно не делаю на это упор. Пытаюсь зарабатывать от продажи фотографии коллекционерам."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Такая модель заработка невозможна в Украине?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Вообще невозможна. Продажа фотографий может и есть, но тот уровень цен, за которые я продаю в Европе, отличается от уровня цен в Украине. Здесь человек подойдет и будет спрашивать у меня: почему твоя работа стоит такую-то сумму?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Нужно объяснять, чем уникальна фотография?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да. В Европе человек подходит и не спрашивает, почему она столько стоит. Он интересуется типом бумаги, на чем была напечатана, в каком принтхаусе она была напечатана, какой лимит, какие размеры. Покупатель понимает, что лимитированные принты – это уникальные вещи и уважающий себя коллекционер не будет покупать не «limitededition». Но это мир, который существует там, а в Украине документальная фотография не относится к искусству вообще. Меня тут кем угодно могут считать — и репортером, и документалистом, но точно не человеком, который зарабатывает на продаже принтов."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А кем ты себя ощущаешь, в первую очередь?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я себя ощущаю документалистом, но в тоже время я, как это называют в Европе, visualartist. То бишь, мне не интересна фотография в плане «что? где? когда?», мне не интересна просто хроника. Мне не интересно рассказывать просто историю, хотя это идет вразрез с идеологией документальной фотографии. Меня больше интересует личная интерпретация автора, его наблюдения и фотография, пропущенная через его сознание и мироощущение."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"То есть, ты не снимаешь репортаж?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я начинал как репортер. Но сейчас я больше отстраняюсь от этого. Есть фотожурналисты, которых я уважаю, но большая часть из них мне не интересны."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Почему?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Из-за идеологии, которую они ведут. Нужно быть честным и говорить честно, а не снимать все с одной стороны."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Это касается, в основном, военной фотографии?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"В том числе. Я не считаю, что военная фотография останавливает войну, она ее пропагандирует. Я раньше считал, что военная фотография может изменить что-то, а сейчас мне интереснее являться человеком искусства, который работает в документальном жанре и выставлять работы в музее или галерее, а не печататься в журналах, ведь там у меня совсем другая свобода – другой формат фотографий, правильный свет, на правильной бумаге."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Но ты снимал войну (военный конфликт на Донбассе – прим. ред.), причем с обеих сторон…"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да, да. В данном случае это был очень важный experience. С двух сторон я научился снимать еще когда туберкулез делал (фотопроект об эпидемии туберкулеза в Украине – прим. ред.). Снимая с одной стороны, очень сложно понять, что происходит. Ты становишься очень близок к одной из сторон, начинаешь ей доверять и кажется, что она говорит только правду. Как у меня было с больными туберкулезом, которые говорили, как все печально, как все плохо, что нужны деньги, а ты идешь к врачу и узнаешь, что герой кого-то изнасиловал или убил. И весы восприятия сразу стабилизируются. Так же мне было важно быть на Майдане с двух сторон, и в Крым поехать, и на Донбассе была возможность сначала как московский журналист работать, а потом с украинской армией снимать."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Скажи, из интернета ты тоже стараешься уходить?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да вообще ушел. Есть друзья близкие, с которыми я общаюсь, и они знают, чем я занимаюсь. А остальные вообще, наверное, не понимают, что со мной происходит. Для меня перестало быть значимым, чтоб другие люди знали, чем я занимаюсь, или оставаться в поле зрения. Люди, которые покупают работы, не в интернете меня находят. Если у тебя нет выставки в музее или галерее, то они тебя не найдут."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Новостная фотография тебе тоже не интересна?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да. Она стала мне безразлична. Даже когда в Париже был теракт, то я отказывался от съемок."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ты считаешь, что какие-то кадры лучше оставить неснятыми?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Я снимаю все, что происходит, все, что я могу и хочу снимать. Но, может быть, часть вещей нельзя показывать."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ты можешь дать определение хорошей фотографии?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Сложно сказать. Это же не спорт, где соревнуются «кто выше прыгнет». Когда меня попросили отобрать десять лучших своих фотографий, я не смог этого сделать. Они все разные, у них у всех разные истории. Что значит лучшие? Визуально хорошие или эмоции, которые я переживал в тот момент, или что случилось позже? Я понял, что я не могу выделить вообще ни одной своей фотографии. В каждой моей фотографии часть моей души и часть того, что останется после меня. Со временем у человека вырабатывается визуальный вкус и становится легче отличить хорошую фотографию от плохой. Но все равно это какой-то стандарт, ведь когда мы смотрим на фотографию, наш разум работает как компьютер, и многих вещей может просто не осознавать, а фотография может быть шедевром в данный момент. Разум может этого не понимать, но человек это почувствует."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Твои стандарты к хорошей фотографии сильно изменились с начала карьеры?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Мое сознание меняется очень быстро. То, что год назад было для меня идеалом, сейчас находится на противоположной стороне. Я сам меняюсь, и меняется мой подход к творчеству. Именно поэтому я не хочу вести группы учеников и читать какие-то глубокие лекции, мне интереснее рассказывать о своем пути."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"В одном из своих интервью ты рассказывал, что во время выступления перед студентами-фотографами, один из учеников показал тебе свои работы до и после поступления в университет. Те, что были сделаны «до», оказались живее сделанных «после». Как ты тогда сказал, парня просто научили зарабатывать деньги. Ты на себе эти шаблоны чувствуешь?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Может мне кажется, но я избавился от влияния очень многих факторов. До этого я воспитывался здесь всевозможными фотографами, своим кругом общения, которые навязывал мне свое мнение, определенное мышление. Это все делает нас узниками сознания, потому что творческий человек может делать все, что захочет и не важно, кто что скажет. Упала планка важности «что про тебя скажут, что про тебя подумают». Иногда тебе навязывают какую-то точку зрения, с которой ты соглашаешься, но чувствуешь дискомфорт внутри. Потому что так надо, так сказали наставники. Я сейчас живу по другим принципам – если я чего-то внутри чувствую, что хочу это делать, а разум говорит, что это катастрофа и полный абсурд, то разуму я говорю гудбай. Разум всегда говорит только о плохом, но если посмотреть на мое развитие в фотографии, то это все иррациональные действия, которые я никак не предсказывал."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ну да. Туберкулез ты снимал совершенно без денег. Не было желания плюнуть и уйти в студию или снимать свадьбы?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Ну… Наверное, привычка еще со службы на флоте – рубить концы, называется. Это означает, что ты не можешь пристать к причалу. Есть вещи, которые мне не нравятся, они как адамово яблоко – соблазняют меня. В тот момент я четко и агрессивно давал понять, что свадьбы я снимать не буду. Тогда я оставил для себя два варианта заработать: либо получить публикации, либо выиграть на конкурсе. Все остальные варианты были отрублены полностью. Но ничего не дается легко."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Тебя поддерживал хоть кто-то? Может, родители?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Нет (смеется). Сложный вопрос. С родителями у меня непростые отношения, я с ними давно не живу, и они не вмешиваются в мою жизнь. У меня тогда появились новые друзья, которые мне помогали. Саша Гляделов много помогал – давал советы, познакомил меня с врачом, когда я думал, что заболею."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Этот проект изменил твою жизнь?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да, произошла полная переоценка ценностей. Мне было тяжело приезжать в Киев и общаться с друзьями, которые рассказывали о своих проблемах – у одного украли телефон, у другого ушла девушка. А я знаю человека, принявшего то, что завтра или послезавтра он умрет. И он счастлив – выходит на улицу, дышит воздухом."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А что, по-твоему, счастье?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Шикарное чувство, когда ты свободен и никому ничего не должен – ни объяснять, ни доказывать, ни рассказывать. Нет этого чувства долга. Я вообще против понятия коллективного счастья, когда всем хорошо. Есть мое личное счастье и счастье близких мне людей. А вот это «я должен» – это какая-то навязанная обществом идея. Для того чтоб избавиться от этого влияния, ты должен снизить свою важность и просто жить в свое удовольствие. Найти равновесие."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А ты это равновесие нашел? Ты счастлив?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Да. Я сейчас вообще в каком-то раю нахожусь. Хотя, это скорее навязано сознанием. Думаю, раньше моя жизнь была ничуть не хуже, просто я по-другому смотрю на одни и те же вещи. Думаю, фотография и есть моя философия – она меня меняет, я развиваюсь вместе с ней."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А каким ты был до фотографии?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Думаю, это лучше спросить у кого-то другого. Наверное, был более резким, критичным, самоуверенным. Я и сейчас такой, но мне не нужно ничего доказывать. Я понял, что если я хочу, чтоб люди воспринимали меня таким, какой я есть, то и мне нужно воспринимать людей такими, какие они есть, и не пытаться их изменить и особенно указывать им на их недостатки. Просто, наверное, постарел."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ритм жизни тоже стал более размеренным?"},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n\n"},{"insert":"Темп жизни у меня идет скачками. Но раньше я бежал и куда-то опаздывал. Вся моя жизнь заключалась в том, чтоб что-то успеть. А сейчас у меня больше времени – я успеваю заниматься собой, ходить в спортзал, читать книги, встречаться с друзьями, работать и не зацикливаюсь на том, чтобы кому-то что-то доказывать. При этом жизнь стала более ритмичной, но чувствую я себя увереннее и спокойнее. Это как взять пилота Формулы-1 – он спокоен, сосредоточен, он контролирует ситуацию, у него нет паники, но при этом скорость у него безумная. И в этом сейчас вся моя жизнь."},{"attributes":{"header":5},"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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MY BAG | MAXIM DONDYUK"},{"insert":"\n\nOver the moon to have the award winning photographer and visual artist Maxim Dondyuk back up on our blog today. He’s been a very busy boy since we spoke to him last (check our past interview with him here), so we are well pleased he’s made time for us once again. This time Maxim has kindly given us a run down of what’s in his photography bag and why… He also speaks about his photohgraphy, and has provided us with some killer back stage fashion week pictures all edited with our cross process film emulation presets +PS LOOKS N°3.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Maxim’s Gear"},{"insert":"\n\nEverything is quite simple, starting from 2015 I use Nikon D810, before that I had a Nikon D3s, which I won in a contest for my project «TB epidemic in Ukraine». As for the lenses, I use only one lens 35mm, it’s an old film lens with autofocus. I’m used to this focal length and don’t need zoom. I must be half a meter from the object I am shooting. It is a very close distance, so you began to feel the same emotions, fear, happiness or sadness. When people look at such photos, they also feel emotions of your character. I also have a 50mm film lens, but it’s more like an emergency lens, if it happens that my 35mm lens breaks or in case I need to make some portraits for magazines.\n\nI don’t like artificial light and don’t use a flash. I take photos only in RAW format, as color correction is very important for me, I pay special attention to it. And I don’t use continuous shooting.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Maxim’s Photography"},{"insert":"\n\nMy photography it’s my personal visual diary. It’s not a hobby or work for me, it’s my philosophy and my religion. It helps me to discover and understand this world. With the help of photography I can live the life of any person, to be present during different events and to empathize with them.\n\nWhen taking photos I always think about the emotions they evoke. Photography has both an emotional and visual side. Photography does not only answer questions like – what, where and when, but it also evokes personal associations. For example – the plot of your favorite book, film or memories from your childhood. A good photo is an emotional photo. People should feel all of the emotions from the moment the picture was taken, and of course – you should feel your own emotions too. If a photo is technically good but has no emotion, this type of photo in my opinion is dead. Of course all photographers need to know the technical aspects of photography.. 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From the beginning of March 2014, protests by pro-Russian and anti-government groups took place in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, commonly collectively called the \"Donbass\", in the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution and the Euromaidan movement. These demonstrations, which followed the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation (February to March 2014), and which were part of a wider group of concurrent pro-Russian protests across southern and eastern Ukraine, escalated into an armed conflict between the separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR respectively), and the Ukrainian government. In the Donetsk People's Republic, from May 2014 until a change of the top leadership in August 2014, some of the top leaders were Russian citizens. According to the Ukrainian government, at the height of the conflict in mid-2014, Russian paramilitaries were reported to make up between 15% to 80% of the 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of War: Q&A with Maxim Dondyuk"},{"insert":"\n\nIn the summer of 2013, months before Euromaidan started, photographer Maxim Dondyuk had traded his camera for video equipment. He was in Crimea, trying his hand at documentary filmmaking, when 2,000 protesters peacefully gathered in Kiev’s main square after the government decided to suspend its process of integration into the European Union. He watched as the protests intensified and, on November 30th, as the authorities started cracking down. The next day, he was at Maidan. “Euromaidan became one of the most visually beautiful revolutions,” Dondyuk wrote after spending three months in the square. The photos he came back with are incredibly cinematic, like scenes from a Hollywood film, and show another side to a widely-documented event. Now he’s making a book, in which aesthetics and emotions take the lead.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Roads & Kingdoms: When did you first visit Maidan?"},{"insert":"\n\nMaxim Dondyuk: Everything happened in the city I live in. The first mass assembly was on December 1st 2013, and it included people from all walks of life. I took a photo from the subway where you can see how crowded it was. The two blocks around Maidan were absolutely packed. People were coming from the entire country, not only to support European integration, but to protest against the impunity of those who beat up students there a few days earlier. People were coming out to defend civil rights. That was my first day at Maidan and I couldn’t have imagined were it would be leading me. That day, the authorities made a mistake: on Bankova street, right near the office of the President, demonstrators and journalists were beaten up. That same day, demonstrators started occupying City Hall and barricades started going up. Despite that, I was sure that by the morning the police would have cleared the entire place. I didn’t have the slightest idea that I would spend the next three months there.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"R&K: At what point did you decide this project would be something different than a photojournalistic reportage?"},{"insert":"\n\nDondyuk: During the first few weeks of December, before the first attempt to clear the square, I didn’t know what I wanted to photograph and in what way. There were hundreds of journalists in Kiev. Sometimes you would see 20 people with cameras standing in a single square meter. It was very difficult to photograph in such conditions, especially as I do not cover news. The more time I spent at Maidan, the more I realized that my subconscious distorted reality. I found myself in front of battle scenes that reminded me of what I had seen in museums, in Realist paintings. It became important to interpret what I saw and felt rather than answer the questions what? where? when? I decided to document Euromaidan through emotions and visual language.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"R&K: How did you achieve that way of photographing?"},{"insert":"\n\nDondyuk: As soon as I stopped trying to control my subconscious, I stopped following the rules imposed on me, and gave myself complete freedom. I was transported in a different reality, far from the demonstrations in Kiev. In front of me, I saw scenes that were both beautiful and horrible. My camera became my notebook, my visual diary.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"R&K: Did you feel like your role changed at that moment?"},{"insert":"\n\nDondyuk: I was at Maidan from the 1st of December to the end. It was a very tragic period for my country. But I was happy that I could be present at this historic moment to convey what I saw to future generations and to people from different countries. Being a documentary photographer, I think it was my duty.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"R&K: How was the work received? People must have been surprised at how different it looked."},{"insert":"\n\nDondyuk: I worked mostly with international magazines that I trust. They contacted me. I was not looking for assignments, and often refused them if they didn’t coincide with my interests. So far, I haven’t had any offers to create an exhibition in Ukraine, but the book I’m working on will present 100 to 150 photos. It divides the Revolution in three different visual phases. I want people to see what I saw. I want to explain to people who live far from Ukraine why a completely peaceful demonstration turned into armageddon. Why people left everything, their work, their home, and came to the capital of Ukraine to fight for freedom. But you will know more after the book is ready, I don’t want to reveal all my secrets.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"R&K: How has this project changed the way you practice photography?"},{"insert":"\n\nDondyuk: After this project, I started to feel more like a visual artist. I became interested in exhibitions and galleries rather than what was being published in the media, which I paid a lot of attention to before. Photography is my philosophy and my religion. I don’t believe in God, but photography helps me discover and understand this world. I believe that photography, just like any other type of art, is a container of emotions. And a documentary photographer only has a quick moment to work before everything ends.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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the Anvil and the Hammer: Confronting Culture"},{"insert":"\n\nIn Maxim Dondyuk’s new book, Ukraine’s 2013-2014 civil unrest is rendered as a conflict between shadows and light, snow and fire, two generations, and two layers of culture colliding on the territory of a single country.\n\nWe live in an age of confrontation. It wraps itself around us like the plastic wrapping on supermarket food: usually unnecessary, leaving behind a mess and the problem of safe disposal without further harm to the environment.\n\nMaxim Dondyuk knows this from first-hand experience, having lived through the conflict that erupted in his country, Ukraine, in 2013. Starting with mass protests against government moves to ally itself more with Russia than the EU, the conflict developed into a major political crisis.\n\nDondyuk’s photographs of the violent confrontations are extraordinary, transcending the political particularities that gave monstrous birth to what his camera records as a hellish phantasmagoria.\n\nJust as the violence of World War II in eastern Europe possessed a barbarity and level of savagery surpassing what took place in the west of the continent, the confrontations in Ukraine are rendered, through the lens of Dondyuk, as a nightmarish inferno that dwarfs scenes of civil unrest witnessed in other European capitals. What we see is more evocative of the 1942-43 battle of Stalingrad than the 1968 street fights in Paris or the Poll Tax riots in British cities in 1990. The closest comparison would come from distilling the thirty-year conflict of Northern Ireland’s Troubles down to the scale of the three months that rocked Kyiv over the winter of 2013-14.\n\nFeatures of civic clashes—barricades, fire, smoke, flags—are familiar enough but their presence in Dondyuk’s photobook are resonant of a stark, primitive discord that confronts the very notion of culture as something ennobling. On the streets of Kyiv, state authority and its foundations were contested; law became not an abstract force, but a material one, belonging to the side whose strength would endure and defeat its rivals. What would be decided was the power to decide; the end to be justified by the violence of the means. The present cannot be mortgaged when all that matters is whose force and determination prevails in the here and now of bloody confrontation.\n\nDondyuk notes Sebastião Salgado as an influence. It shows in his eye for multitudes, his sense of the epic and his depictions of collective endeavour. He is drawn to the massed lines of protestors and police, opposing armies in an urban battlefield; phalanxes of police with black helmets facing protestors in orange hard hats; swirling smoke and night skies lit by fire. With no sense of good guys and bad guys, left wing or right wing, East or West, there is something medieval about the crudity and rawness of the conflict. This accords with Dondyuk’s statement that what he tried to capture was the more “abstract, universal conflict that was playing out, between light and shadow, between the thick black smoke and whiteness of the February snow, and in some sense between good and evil, though it was often impossible to tell which side was which.”\n\nIndividuals stand stationary, emblems of the mayhem around them: a young man cowering in fear, desperate for protection as he covers his head; a figure silhouetted in an open space amidst burnt-out buses and continuing fire from riot police; and an almost surreal moment of beauty when a fur-clad member of the Dakh Daughters band, with a double bass in its case strapped on her back, glances backwards on her way to a concert performance on the night of December 21. One wonders if Dondyuk has watched the films of Eisenstein.\n\nThe visceral quality of the pictures is also akin to the multimedia effect of a blockbuster movie and this is related to the fact that all the photos were taken with one 35mm lens. The camera is only a few feet away from the subject matter of each image. You should not feel intimidated by a photograph but seeing the tooled-up police and the makeshift weapons of protestors is frightening; the acrid smoke and smell of burnt tyres gets into your throat. The tumult is audible and you can hear the breaking glass of Molotov cocktails.\n\nMaxim Dondyuk did not drop into the city of Kyiv for a day’s shoot. He lives there and he lived the confrontations of that winter of discontent. He attended the first mass rally that took place on the Maidan, the city’s central square a major crossroad, in December 2013: “I felt sure that by the morning the police would clean the entire Maidan. I didn’t have the slightest idea that I would spend the next three months there.” The street battles culminated in the shooting of dozens of unarmed protestors by the police, the fleeing of the fourth President of Ukraine in a helicopter over the border to Russia and a week of public mourning for those who had died.\n\nOn one occasion, Dondyuk found himself on the police side of the barricades and spent the rest of the day there, returning a number of times. 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Liberty"},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Interview by Valentin Baryshnikov"},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"russian, 2016"},{"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 87","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":"#2d2d2d","hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":false,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"text","summary":{},"text_content2":{"ops":[{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"Фотограф Максим Дондюк – о войне, Майдане, Украине, России и стене, сдвигающейся на восток."},{"insert":"\n\nФотограф Максим Дондюк снимал Майдан и войну на востоке Украины, с обеих сторон. Он может рассказать, как ему грозили расстрелом пророссийские сепаратисты, как он был в окружении под Иловайском и как ему мешали работать украинские штабисты.\n\nНакануне второй годовщины победы Майдана, бегства президента Виктора Януковича и последовавших за этим российской аннексией Крыма и войной в Донбассе Радио Свобода публикует еще неизданные фотографии Максима Дондюка.\n\nОн родился на западе Украине, в Хмельницкой области, в небольшом городке Славута, затем вместе с семьей (отец Дондюка – военный) переехал на юг, в Херсонскую область, в Новую Каховку, где и прошла большая часть его детства.\n\nДондюк рассказывает, что фотографии его учила мать, описывает, что сидел с ней в “красной” комнате, называет советские камеры: “Зенит”, “Смена”. Позже он стал ходить в кружок фотографии. И, наконец, уже в 24 года, после армии, в Харькове, работая поваром, он вдруг вернулся к фотографии, занимался ею все свободное время, читал книги по фотоискусству, экспериментировал. Через год он бросил работу, стал профессиональным фотографом, переехал в Киев. Поначалу, говорит Дондюк, речь не шла о документалистике:\n\nВначале я смотрел в сторону каких-то студийных вещей, пейзажных вещей, занимался сферическими панорамами – это очень технически сложная вещь тогда была. По сути дела, что такое репортаж в хорошем смысле, я уже узнал, когда переехал в Киев. Потому что в Харькове очень сильная художественная школа, все, что я там видел из репортажей, – это очень скучные газетные вещи, новости, которые никак не вдохновляли. В то время я бы очень удивился, если бы мне кто-то сказал, что я буду документалистом.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Как вы стали документалистом? Каким образом вы стали автором проекта про туберкулезных больных, за который получили призы?"},{"insert":"\n\nЭто был первый серьезный проект. До этого я переехал в Киев, работал в новостном агентстве. Я долгое время ездил в командировки по всей стране. Это было вначале захватывающе, съемки были на темы от политики, футбола и села до митингов и Верховной Рады. Это хороший опыт и колоссальная школа, но через несколько лет мне стало скучно, я сильно погрузился в документальную фотографию, очень был вдохновлен. В тот момент я понял, что хочу заняться более глубоким проектом на какую-то социальную тематику. Через какое-то время я пришел к проблеме туберкулеза, о котором сам тогда ничего толком не знал. Мне тогда казалось, что я управлюсь за месяц или два, что это не так сложно и займет не так много времени, но получилось, что этот проект полностью засосал меня – такая черная дыра, в которую я попал и которая полностью изменила мою жизнь. Я провел два года, снимая этот проект, больше ничем не занимался. Жизнь, которая была до этого проекта, полностью исчезла, работа, семья, отношения, многие друзья, мое мировоззрение. Человек, который после этого проекта образовался, – это уже был совсем другой человек. Поэтому для меня это оказалось проектом становления как другой личности. Для меня фотография – не работа, не хобби, это философия, я ее очень сильно за это люблю, что она позволяет мне меняться благодаря жизни с людьми в других ситуациях, в которые я не смог бы попасть, если бы не был документалистом.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"bold":true,"italic":true},"insert":"​Вам не страшно было работать с туберкулезными больными?"},{"insert":"\n\nНе страшно, наверное, только сумасшедшим. Вначале не было сильного страха, я понимал, что делаю. Были вспышки паники, конечно, но они быстро устранялись, я делал для себя выводы, решал – продолжаю я это делать или останавливаюсь. И продолжал. Я пытался побороться со стигмой, существующей в обществе, с предвзятостью, с неосведомленностью об этой проблеме. Я сам был частью этого общества, я тоже считал, что, если человек переболел туберкулезом, он чуть ли не заразный. Я абсолютно ничего не понимал. Это был большой опыт, потому что туберкулез – это не война, но ты постоянно сталкиваешься с медленной смертью. Контакт с такой жизнью сильно сказывается на тебе. К концу проекта я понимал, что я теряю ощущение реальности, у меня начались проблемы с реальной жизнью, когда я возвращался. Я уволился, я потерял семью, мне негде было жить в Киеве, я в какой-то момент стал жить в больницах, потому что мне некуда было возвращаться. Может быть, на фоне всего, что я снимал, мои проблемы не казались какими-то значимыми. Через два года я стал понимать, что теряю грань, что я живу только той жизнью, абсолютно не понимаю, что происходит в другой жизни. У психологов называется выгорание.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Но вы вернулись в обычную жизнь?"},{"insert":"\n\nКонечно, вернулся, все нормально. Просто какой-то период адаптации был, так же, как когда ты возвращаешься с фронта. У меня были друзья, которые болели туберкулезом, есть люди, которые умерли, я был у них на похоронах. Для меня важно, когда я куда-то уезжаю, стараться, чтобы я был там не гостем, чтобы это было полное погружение, чтобы я был частью того, что происходит. Я уезжал, допустим, в Донецкую, Луганскую или Херсонскую область, потом в Крым, договаривался с областным врачом о том, что я хочу у них снимать, – все это на личных контактах, я не работал в СМИ, у меня не было ксив, даже камеры не было, друзья заняли. Некоторые врачи посылали, а некоторые говорили: круто, молодец, что тебе надо? Мне надо было разрешение на съемку и чтобы я мог переночевать, поесть, у меня нет денег гостиницу снимать, неделю давайте поживу в этой больнице, неделю в той. Иногда снимал квартиру в том же городке, дешево выходило. С тюрьмами точно так же договаривался. Они говорили: пробей хоть какое-то разрешение, чтобы твоя фамилия была, а мы тут тебе уже покажем все, что можем.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Давайте поговорим о Майдане. Два года назад он победил. Вы осмыслили то, что произошло, спустя два года?"},{"insert":"\n\nМне кажется, я и тогда все понимал, и моя точка зрения не изменилась. Для меня то, что произошло на Майдане, – это Берлинская стена, которая пала, – она просто продолжает свое продвижение к Красной площади, меняет географическое расположение. На Майдане в центре Киева произошло противостояние между двумя абсолютно разными культурами, двумя разными пластами восприятия и мировоззрения. Это не означает, что были молодые против старого поколения. Просто одна культура – это попытка быть независимыми, попытка изменить жизнь, стать частью… – я бы не сказал частью Европы, мы понимаем, что у Украины много проблем и стать частью Европы очень сложно, – но попытаться жить самостоятельно, без навязанной точки зрения, жить, как нам нужно жить. Другая культура ностальгирует, хочет вернуть былые времена, ей неинтересно это другое будущее. Мой проект назывался “Культура конфронтации”, это противостояние двух абсолютно разных культур было в Берлине, Чехия до этого, “Солидарность” и так далее. Стена движется, и влияние России постепенно сдвигается, вот здесь и произошел такой раскол. Потому что многие люди – те, кто в возрасте, – запуганы. А молодежь, которая родилась в 1991 году, в независимой Украине, они вообще не понимали, когда им говорили, мол, мы хотим Советский Союз или бывшую империю, – они говорили: я не знаю, что это, я родился в Украине, я не понимаю, о чем вы. Для меня это противостояние абсолютно разных культур. Нельзя сказать, что одна хорошая, а другая плохая, они смотрят просто совсем в разные стороны.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы работали в Донбассе фактически военным корреспондентом. Как вы относитесь к тем, кто, грубо говоря, на другой стороне?"},{"insert":"\n\nПервые несколько месяцев я был на Донбассе нелегально, делал вид, будто я русский корреспондент, пока меня наши доблестные украинские СМИ не вскрыли. Я там находился с русскими ксивами как москвич, акал, бекал. Для меня было важно находиться там с людьми, которые оккупируют мою страну, с российскими флагами, я хотел все это видеть не через телевизор, а лично. Я видел, как сепаратисты, оккупанты, которые приезжали с оружием уже из Крыма, захватывают мою страну. И бывало, что киевское правительство усугубляло взрывоопасную ситуацию, чего можно было избежать. К людям, которые взяли там оружие, конечно, я отношусь негативно, потому что я сам сидел под обстрелом российской артиллерии, я потерял друзей и знакомых из-за людей с российскими флагами. У меня личные претензии, потому что захватили часть моей страны. Меня допрашивали, меня вели расстреливать, мне на голову надевали мешок, я оказывался в печальных, плачевных ситуациях. Поэтому у меня как у гражданина Украины и просто как у человека, на которого наводили автоматы эти люди, к ним большие претензии.\n\nНа самом деле вся ситуация стандартная – это повторение того, что было в Приднестровье, в Осетии, все по кругу идет. Просто жалко людей, которые поверили и вышли, увидев, что Крым так мирно присоединили, – они подумали, что их присоединят так же. Это обычные люди, у них нет даже загранпаспорта, они говорят: я в Киеве никогда не был, я в Ростов езжу на базар. У них абсолютно свой мир. В Луганской и Донецкой области с флагами “ДНР” и “ЛНР” выходили с 2005 года, и правительство в Киеве никак не реагировало на это, никто не поднимал шум. Эти флаги придумали не в 2014 году. Конечно, Россия помогла вооружением и людьми, которые это все захватывали. Но то, что люди на той территории и в Крыму были настроены против Украины, – это большая проблема 20-летней политики Украины по отношению к этим людям. Они просто не захотели жить в этой стране и помогли оккупантам и людям с оружием.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​У вас был проект в Крыму о детском военно-патриотическом лагере, который тоже раскололся на проукраинскую и пророссийскую части."},{"insert":"\n\nСейчас я работаю над первым документальным фильмом, который был снят за несколько месяцев до Майдана, – именно про этот лагерь “Крым-Сичь”. Уже в этом фильме четко видно, что эта проблема не из-за Майдана, она существовала, просто Майдан был последней точкой, когда каждый должен был сказать, на чьей он стороне. Конфликт существовал, и его не гасили. Почему они там не встали на сторону Украины? Там трудяги, в шахту спустились-поднялись, многие в Киеве не были за всю свою жизнь. Вот он живет в Макеевке или в Луганске, он вообще не был никогда в Киеве. Он в этой пропаганде погряз, он не знает, что происходит. Это проблема страны, почему туда не доносили, почему не помогали. В новостях про Луганскую область вообще не вспоминали никогда, пока не началась война. Как про Северный полюс. А там уже флаги “ЛНР” были, митинги, жесткие праздники 9 мая, которые ничем не отличались от того, что сейчас, такой же бред происходил и раньше.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А что за история, когда вас на расстрел выводили?"},{"insert":"\n\nЭта в Славянске было. Я вошел настолько близко в контакт, что мог заходить в кабинет к Пономареву, такой мэр был, я знал всех, кто захватывал Краматорск и Славянск. У меня были два друга, действительно москвичи, российские корреспонденты, хорошие друзья. Они на самом деле мне жизнь спасали намного больше, чем многие украинские СМИ, из-за которых потом у меня было много проблем. Они прикрылись русскими паспортами, а я липовыми корочками, мы типа втроем москвичи, – они знали, что я не москвич, просили меня, чтобы я не полностью сливал, что происходит, потому что тогда головы всем снесут. Я постоянно выставлял фотографии в “Инстаграме”: заявление делает Аваков (министр внутренних дел Украины. – Прим.), что все блокпосты в Славянске уничтожены, Национальная гвардия полностью захватила Славянск. Украинские СМИ тогда врали так, что у меня уши заворачивались. Я ехал, снимал на телефон все блокпосты, где стоят сепаратисты, и это выставлял в “Инстаграме” – типа, чуваки, это не так. Когда украинская армия переходила на их сторону, я снимал номера БМП, все время показывал, что очень много врут украинские каналы. Так как я там был из украинцев, то украинские СМИ начали делать материалы, где какой-то журналист выходит на черном фоне и говорит: я веду спецрепортаж из Славянска. Называют мое реальное имя, фамилию, которое у меня в российских удостоверениях, и говорят: вот он нам сообщил. Начинают нести какой-то бред, показывать мои фотографии с бойцами, которых я снимаю в “Инстаграм”, начинают говорить: он нам сообщил, что они спецагенты ГРУ. Из-за этих действий меня арестовывали, выводили на расстрел, но, как оказалось потом, – просто пугали, все было холостое. Мешок на голову, 6 часов интересных разговоров, но все закончилось хорошо.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы наблюдали вблизи так называемое “ДНР”, у вас какое впечатление – это идейные люди?"},{"insert":"\n\nПоначалу все идейные из местного населения, потому что они хотят быть частью России, они увидели, что в Крыму произошло. А эта верхушка, что воевала, там приезжают те, кто в Чечне воевал, в Осетии воевал. “Стрелок” (Игорь Стрелков, бывший министр обороны так называемой “ДНР”. – Прим.) воевал в Боснии. Знаете, есть такие туристы военные. Они за идею, но за какую, хрен поймешь, просто, наверное, повоевать. У каждого свой “русский мир” в голове был – я не могу сказать, что это не за идею. Точно не за то, чтобы им заплатили кучу бабла. Большинство – это люди, которые приехали из России, из Крыма, с вдохновением, азартом, много местных. Но были наркоманы, алкоголики, которые за 300 рублей стояли на блокпостах, – но если видели БМП, они все бросали и уезжали. На самом деле это очень отработанная система, которую Россия использовала много раз не только в Украине, все повторяется и повторяется.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А как вы работали с “украинской” стороны?"},{"insert":"\n\nКогда я с “той” стороны снимал, я один раз попал под обстрел украинской армии и понял, что если меня убьют на Донбассе, то я умру со стороны России, буду объявлен сепаратистом, мне не очень этого хотелось. Я решил попытаться снимать со стороны украинской армии и столкнулся с колоссальным сопротивлением пресс-службы АТО, украинского правительства и всех, кого только можно. Если ты находишься на той стороне, у тебя полностью зеленый свет на все, а с нашей стороны тебе все запрещают. Ты приезжаешь куда-нибудь к бойцам, как это было в начале, бойцы говорят: да. А пресс-служба присылает за тобой и тебя увозят. Были батальоны такие, как “Донбасс”, “Айдар”, “Правый сектор”, с которыми намного проще это все решалось. В какой-то момент, когда пресс-служба опять ничего не давала снимать, я сказал Саше (фотограф Александр Гляделов. – РС), что знаю командира Семенченко, поедем в Донбасс, посмотрим, что там можно делать. Так сложилось, что мы приехали перед Иловайскими событиями (когда подразделения украинской армии попали в окружение. – РС) и вместе с ними поехали в Иловайск, проезжали через все блокпосты вместе с ними на их машинах. На блокпостах никто не знал, что мы пресса. Да и слабо можно назвать нас прессой, потому что мы нигде не работали, никто нам за это не платил, ехали сами, а потом уже как выйдет. Документировали все.\n\nНе мне судить, из-за чьих ошибок попали в окружение, как и все бойцы, ждали, надеялись. К сожалению, все закончилось плачевно для очень многих, кто там был. Нам с Сашей повезло, Сашу ранило через несколько дней после того, как мы туда зашли, не тяжело. Мы рядом были, меня не задело, ему задело ногу, я ему оказывал медицинскую помощь. Очень много было раненых, медиков было всего пара человек, они занимались, в основном, бойцами, я Саше помогал, потом его увезли вместе с ранеными. Смешная история была, у Саши, когда его увозили, все пленки, которые он сделал в Иловайске, выпали. И какой-то боец принес мне все его пленки, когда Сашу уже увезли. Я думаю: вот прикол, теперь мне нужно выбраться из “котла” с моими фотографиями, еще и с Сашиными. Мне повезло, я уехал раньше, за пару дней до того, как всех расстреляли. Нас выпустили на автобусе, обстреливали минометами, но лобового сопротивления, чтобы кто-то вышел прямо на какой-то коробочке, БМП или танке, – не было, хотя за день до нас такой же автобус расстреляли. Мне нужно было уезжать, у меня была выставка о Майдане во Франции, у меня был уже самолет, меня даже совесть мучила, что я не хотел уезжать, хотел до конца быть. Но я вынужден был ехать с бойцами, которые вывозили раненых, мы уезжали на микроавтобусе. Я помню, был парень с перебитым позвоночником, я его поддерживал, потому что на кочках мы очень сильно съехали, по нам минометом сильно шарахали. Он, помню, держал гранату в руках и говорил: “Макс, без обид, но если засада, я ее на хер взрываю”. Так мы 10 километров по красной линии ехали, три бойца были или четыре, раненые и я, выбирались оттуда. Через несколько дней много погибло парней.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы описывали, как вы сидели в Иловайске, потом выходили оттуда, потому что у вас самолет во Францию на выставку. Это очень сильный перепад – сидеть под бомбежкой, а потом во Франции выставка. Вы как чувствуете себя в этой вилке? Где вы больше себя ощущаете как дома?"},{"insert":"\n\nНа самом деле все было психологически сложно, хотя я не понимал это тогда. Мои друзья после этой выставки повезли на Лазурный берег, где-то в Сан-Тропе или в Ницце. Мне друг говорит: “Как ты себя чувствуешь? Пять дней назад ты был под артобстрелом”. Эти все синдромы послевоенные не чувствуются, на тот момент я не понимал, что у меня какой-то перепад. Сейчас я осознаю, что, конечно, очень нервный, психованный был, очень сильно сказывается. Где я себя лучше чувствую? Мне кажется, я себя лучше чувствую в своей жизни, моя жизнь там, где я нахожусь. Я знаю многих фотографов, которые, уезжая с войны, не могут нормально жить мирной жизнью, возвращаются на войну. Я к таким не отношусь, потому что мне есть чем заняться и на гражданке. Я не считаю себя военным фотографом. Я был на войне, потому что я захотел там побывать. Не потому, что я репортер, который должен это снимать. Это произошло в моей стране, это история моей страны, я начал ее снимать с Майдана, я был в Крыму, потом я был на Донбассе, изначально принципиально поехал на ту сторону. Для меня это моя история, я был со всех сторон. Это мой опыт. Сейчас я туда не возвращаюсь, потому что я не понимаю, что я буду там делать. Я там был в тот момент, я себя чувствовал комфортно, когда я был там, сейчас я себя чувствую комфортно не на войне.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​Вы снимали на Майдане, вы снимали украинских солдат на войне, это часто сильное воодушевление, движение духа. Трагические события были на Майдане и на войне, но без сомнения, в этом было что-то возвышающее. У вас сейчас ощущение, что это прошло, ушло куда-то, это воодушевление людей, которые меняли Украину, отстаивали ее?"},{"insert":"\n\nВсе это вдохновение должно подпитываться чем-то, на самом деле оно сейчас держится на энтузиастах, но это не благодаря, а вопреки тому, что происходит. К сожалению, то, за что вышли люди, произошло в очень минимальном процентном соотношении по отношению к тому, что хотелось бы. Во власти осталось много старых людей, система не очень изменилась. Старая система другими способами пытается . Старой системой я называю не систему Януковича: система Порошенко, система Тимошенко, система всех политиков, которые были тогда, – они ничем не отличаются. Новая власть в виде новых людей, которые пришли после Майдана, – это очень малое процентное соотношение, мы бы хотели, чтобы все произошло намного быстрее. К сожалению, теперь нам остается надеяться на то, что постепенно молодая кровь будет вытеснять старую. Но старая система очень борется, есть очень большое сопротивление, и это очень тяжело. У меня много знакомых, которые ушли из бизнеса, пошли в политику или в министерство какое-то, у них были очень хорошие зарплаты, а там им дали зарплату пять тысяч гривен, 200 долларов. Они два года работают, говорят: у меня все сбережения закончились. Я работаю, я депутат, в министерстве, и у меня нет денег. И им говорят: мы все ждем, пока вы устанете, уйдете, мы дальше будет опять делать, что делали. К сожалению, сейчас единственный шаг – это медленно, постепенно молодая свежая кровь должна вытеснять этот старый режим. Флаги поменялись, а мировоззрение наверху у людей не поменялось. Я не говорю про всех, я считаю, что одна треть, хотя бы одна треть – это люди, которые пытаются изменить страну. Но существуют две трети, которые не хотят ничего менять, они не приспособлены к новому европейскому государству. Все бы хотели, чтобы они собрались со своими деньгами и куда-нибудь укатили, чтобы молодое поколение, интеллигенция вела бы страну в какие-то новые времена. Многие люди возвращались из Европы сюда, чтобы что-то изменить, но я знаю сейчас тенденцию – они уезжают, потому что разочарованы, что ничего не изменилось.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Я хочу вернуться к тому, с чего вы начали, к этому движению стены. Стена, которая рухнула в Берлине, на Майдане ее частично обрушили, и она…"},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Сдвинулась в Донбасс."},{"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Движется на восток. Я хотел вас спросить, как вы относитесь к России, чем это движение стены, с вашей точки зрения, закончится?"},{"insert":"\n\nЭто очень сложный вопрос, потому что у меня в России есть много друзей, с которыми у нас очень хорошие отношения. До всего, что случилось, я часто приезжал в Россию, был в Москве. Это больше похоже на помешательство. Я отношусь хорошо к людям, которых знаю в России, а к общей массе у меня плохое отношение, потому что они поддерживают то, что делает их правительство. Они молчат, боятся, не хотят ничего говорить. У меня, наверное, больше не ненависть, а разочарование или непонимание, как можно не видеть, что происходит. Потому что ощущение, что это возвращение назад, полностью в Советский Союз, и люди счастливы от того, что это происходит. Люди довольны, люди поддерживают войну, люди максимально разжигают ненависть – все эти лозунги, призывы и то, как они реагировали, говорило о том, что проблема не в Майдане. Стоило только назвать украинцев фашистами, сразу же большая часть населения России это поддержала. Это говорит о том, что эта мысль в голове культивировалась, Малороссия, все остальное – было уже в головах, это не могло появиться за одну неделю. Отношение истинное… Мне кажется, большая проблема россиян – это империализм, они хотят вернуть свою империю, свое влияние на соседние государства. Они не могут найти ничего другого, как сделать это силой, и в этом именно моя претензия к России. Они убивают мой народ. Как можно рассказать детям, у которых стоят дома фотографии их родителей, отцов, которые были убиты людьми с российскими флагами, что это наша братская страна? Та война, которая произошла, уже нас разделила. На самом деле это за год, за два, даже за пять, за десять лет – не разрешится, потому что эта война затронула каждого. У каждого кто-то из знакомых погиб, или пришел раненый, или был на фронте, или он был там сам. На самом деле это глобальная проблема, потому что люди потеряли близких. И с той стороны та же ситуация.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"​А про стену?"},{"insert":"\n\nТак получилось, что в Украине сейчас процентное соотношение людей – еще до Майдана было – немного другое, они хотят другой жизни, не хотят возвращаться в ту жизнь с Советским Союзом, в те времена. А на Донбассе – люди, которые отстаивают это. Стена – это граница империализма, она сдвигается. Это просто геополитическое влияние. Сейчас Россия не имеет такого влияния на Украину – на ту часть Украины, которая контролируется украинской армией, украинским правительством, – как она влияла до Майдана. Эта стена – влияние России на соседние государства, влияние на умы. Потому что когда человек перестает смотреть только российское телевидение, только российские новости, то он начинает иметь другую точку зрения. Мы все думаем, что у нас у всех есть свобода, мы можем зайти в интернет, все увидеть, все почитать, но большинство людей, что в России, что в Украине, включают телевизор и смотрят то, что там показывают, слушают, читают газеты, общаются. Когда я был в Крыму и в Донбассе, то порой доходило до смешного, люди рассказывают такие сказки. Я был свидетелем какой-то ситуации, а люди через час уже все настолько перевирали и в это верили, какой-то “Правый сектор”, который кому-то отрезал голову, сидит где-то в погребе. В чем Россия хороша, так это в информационной войне. На самом деле вся война России в Украине началась благодаря СМИ. У меня иногда много вопросов к СМИ, потому что люди 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Знімав проект, присвячений людям із туберкульозом, робив фото з війни на Донбасі для закордонних агенцій. Працював для ЗМІ США, Польщі, Німеччини, Фінляндії тощо. Один із авторів виставки «Забуті світом», яка експонується цими днями у львівському Палаці мистецтв.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Що Ви думаєте щодо негативної реакції частини відвідувачів на виставку?"},{"insert":"\n\nУ мене було відчуття віддзеркалення Донецька, просто інший бік дзеркала, де люди неспроможні сприймати не те, щоб іншу сторону, а взагалі бачать лише свою позицію, лише біле або лише чорне. І це дуже-дуже сумно, тому що демократична країна будується зовсім іншим шляхом.\nЯ і полякам казав: ви повинні розуміти, що ви проведете виставку, а тут люди, яких торкнулась ця трагедія, це війна! І от прийдуть на виставку ті, в кого загинули близькі, а ви показуєте прапори «ДНР», Росії… Вони зробили ризикований хід, що зробили виставку тут. Якби привезли її у Київ, це було би трохи інша реакція.\nА тут дійсно віддзеркалення того, що є там. Там гіперболізована любов до «совка», а тут – прагнення бути незалежними. І зараз знову окупаційна війна, тож це болюча тема. Але ж Росія не вторглася у Львів, Росія вторглася в Донецьк і люди у Львові мають зрозуміти, що там люди трохи інакше міркують, ніж тут.\nДля цього треба відсторонитись і подивитись на це інакше. Але для організаторів це теж досвід. Бо вони там в Польщі думають, що тут всі демократичні, що всі розуміють, що і як. А от приїхали і побачили, як є. Я думав про те, аби зняти всі підписи на виставці, але організатори ж європейці, для них це шок, вони вважають це цензурою.\nЯ був і тут, і там, тож трохи з різних боків усе бачив. Але я не знаю, як би я поводився, якби мешкав тут, у Львові постійно і якби у мене забрали брата, сина, родича, і якби він там загинув від рук російських окупантів. І що б я тоді казав?\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Мене якраз виставка і здивувала тим, що вона про різні боки конфлікту. Відчувається, що вона робилась для зовнішнього глядача, для європейського, який хоче відсторонитись і зрозуміти суть. Як думаєте, а тут це можливо?"},{"insert":"\n\nВарто розуміти, що організатори не українці і не росіяни, вони поляки і вони щиро співпереживають. І для них, як і для іншого світу, важливо дивитись, що трапилось дійсно, а не лише з одного боку.\nЯк мені здається, тут би хотіли побачити лише поховання українських військових, тільки зруйнування, спричинені російською артилерією. Але ж ми всі розуміємо, що якщо хтось думає, що війна це тільки шкода з одної сторони, то це абсурд\nВійна – це дуже велика біда для людей, котрі там мешкають. Вона чілпяє кожну людину і з одного, і з іншого боку. Але війна рано чи пізно скінчиться. Ми маємо розуміти, що ми мешкаємо в одній країні і не пройде таке, що ми туди прийдемо, всім скажемо: вдягайте вишиванки, розмовляйте українською. Треба шукати компроміси. Я це дуже добре розумію, хоч я втратив на цій війні багато друзів та знайомих, це і моя особиста війна, особиста трагедія. Але я був і по цей, і по той бік…\nХочу ще наголосити, що саме «завдяки» українській владі та українській прес-службі в зоні АТО ми бачимо так багато картинок по той бік (на окупованій частині території, – ред.). Тому що вони (прес-центр АТО, – ред.) не давали дозволу знімати.\nІ коли я був кілька місяців з того боку під «прикриттям» російської прес-карти, поки мене не «викрили» українські ЗМІ, то мені давали дозвіл знімати все. Все, що я хотів. Бо російська пропаганда знає силу медіа, вона розуміє, що треба пускати медіа. І закордонні журналісти там мали змогу знімати все. А коли я почав знімати з української сторони, то я вже проїжджав на лінію фронту як військовий, на якихось броньовиках, з військовими, з якими домовлявся сам, бо прес-служба АТО возила всіх по одних і тих же блок-постах і показувала добру і гарну картинку.\nАле у той же час були насправді місця, де військові по три місяці жили в окопах, їли тушонку, не маючи жодної гарячої їжі, тобто, трагічна ситуація була. Але влада не хотіла цього показувати!\nНі закордонні, ні українські медіа не допускались. І лише певні окремі журналісти, яким було важливо туди потрапити, самі влаштовували собі ці поїздки, самі домовлялись про все з волонтерами чи батальйонами, чи військовими… І я з кількома фотографами був в Іловайському котлі. І в нас залишились фотографії, завдяки яким люди можуть бачити, що там було. Але є така трагедія як Савур Могила, звідки немає жодної фотографії, ми навіть не знаємо і не бачимо обличь цих наших героїв. І це тому, що нікого не хотіли туди пускати.\nА закордонні журналісти приїжджають, їм треба це якось показувати, а тут їм не дають, не пускають, показують якусь фігню… Вони думають, що журналісти, котрі вже по 20 років працюють на війні, поведуться на блок-пости оці випещені, де все добре? Вони їдуть на той бік, де їм кажуть «знімайте все», їдьте в морг, на передову, куди хочете: «Ти сам за себе відповідаєш, а якщо загинеш – то твоя справа». А з нашого боку це було можливим тільки з батальйонами і тільки завдяки ним.\nЯ так потрапив в Іловайський котел із батальйоном «Донбас». Я поїхав туди власним коштом, просто зі мною була камера. І от хлопці кажуть: «Ти ж розумієш, що ми вже в оточенні, і виїжджати ти будеш уже з нами». І так і вийшло, що на цій виставці я один, хто був ще з українського боку фронту. Звісно, тут представлена дуже маленька частина того, що у мене є. Але, власне, так і сталось, що світ бачить цю війну крізь трагедію та страждання тієї сторони, бо наша сторона дуже і дуже не хоче показувати, що дійсно відбувається.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А як довго Ви там були?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ 1 грудня вийшов на Майдан. Я три місяці був на Майдані під час усіх активних фаз, далі – Крим. Був десь місяць у Криму до «референдуму», коли анексія почалась. І коли почались події на Донбасі, окупація… Хоча це ж треба розуміти, що якби на Майдані дали б всім автомати, почалась би війна. Є збурені люди, котрі хочуть якихось змін. І якби їм дали не бруківку, а автомат, також почались би те саме. Але туди приїхали росіяни, дали зброю, було декілька спецзагонів, які координували це.\nІ з нашого боку ж теж масла у вогонь підливали. Тож потім я там був аж до Іловайського котла. Потім я виїхав… і ще в грудні повертався уже з «Червоним Хрестом», їздив по зруйнованих містах з нашого боку. І з 2015 року я вирішив для себе, що не хочу туди повертатись, я вже не розумів для себе, що я там буду робити.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А чому? Війна ж продовжується…"},{"insert":"\n\nКоли ти розумієш, що можеш сьогодні загинути, але водночас ти робиш важливу справу, то це одна річ. А коли ти повинен постійно сперечатись з якоюсь там владою, військовими, домовлятись… До того ж я просто «видохся» за цей рік. І за той час я багато працював зі світовими медіа, з українськими я зовсім не працюю, бо виникло багато розчарувань. І я зрозумів, що мені потрібна перерва.\nНасправді, коли був Іловайськ, це дійсно було трагічно, бо нам по радіо чи телефону казали, що там парад готують, що міністр приймає нову зірку, а тут у хлопців 4 чи 5 БМП («бойова машина піхоти», – ред.), а на нас танк приїжджає прямою наводкою б’є…\nІ жодного танку в нас нема, зв’язку нема, хлопці самі в кредит брали рації, щоб якось орієнтуватись у цих коробках. І є дуже багато є питань і ці всі трагічні програші, це програш не нашої армії мужньої, а нашої влади, яка, на жаль, себе не виправдала\nІ от за рік ти розумієш, що прес-служба робить усе, аби ти нічого не зняв, що українські медіа дуже часто цікавить тільки одна сторона, яка показує лише одну правду, а іншої правди бути не може, що інша правда – це проросійська пропаганда… Багато військових повертаються туди, бо тут у них немає іншого життя, бо ними ніхто не займається, держава ними не займається. Влада зовсім не розуміє, що люди, котрі були на війні, іншою мірою все вимірюють і їх треба до чогось долучатись, їм треба допомагати. І зламана душа, бо вона ж дійсно зламана, бо, коли ти бачиш як люди гинуть, як твої друзі гинуть, а сюди приїздиш, то тут дуже тяжко. І це проблема країни, а не тільки їх самих.\nВони там герої були, захищали країну, а тут приїжджають, не можуть вирішити якісь проблеми, їм ніхто не допомагає, то починаються різні неприємні речі… У мене відчуття, що у владі взагалі не розуміють того. І, не дай Бог нам третього Майдану. Бо перший був «лайт», революція у 2013 була така «мідіум», а «хардкор» буде наступний, бо будуть військові, для них стріляти – це вже нормально. І всі ми розуміємо, що зараз в Україні багато незареєстрованої зброї і, якщо почнеться хвиля, а влада потроху до цього йде, не знаю, зо може початись…\nАле є й позитивні зрушення, бо частково військові потрапили і в нормальні ситуації, наприклад, помічниками депутатів абощо, тож якийсь дрібний відсоток присутній і у владі. І я дуже сподіваюсь, що це розумні люди, сподіваюсь, що вони все ж будуть розуміти, що єдині, кому ми можемо довіряти – це фронтовикам, тим, хто допомагав цим людям.\nМи можемо Донбас повернути, але силою, якщо й вийде, то просто патріотизм там буде інший, бо там лишились люди, які постраждали, зокрема, і від нашої армії. Так трапилось…\nБудь-яка людина, що вміє думати, розуміє, що там можна було це все на початку ще згладити, що можна було зробити це все не так криваво, що просто хтось (навіть не з того боку, не з Росії) дуже-дуже хотів, що у нас почалась кривава м’ясорубка. І що влада може заробляти на війні, і що там ми втратили дуже багато патріотів, які могли би змінити країну, але пішли на фронт і загинули. Бо ж 2014 рік це була дійсно м’ясорубка, бійці просто в маршрутках заїжджали на фронт проти танків.\nЯк було на Майдані, коли снайпери стріляли в людей, які захищались якимись алюмінієвими щитами, то на сході 2014 року було те ж саме, але не сотні – тисячі. І коли з Іловайська виходили, то російська армія мала зв’язок і все, що треба, а у нас… Ми коли там були, то хлопці дзвонили по мобільному і наводили артилеристів, але ж ті все прослуховують, захотіли – заглушили мобільний зв’язок нашим – просто халепа. А люди воювали на патріотизмі. Я досі не розумію, як Муженко не те, що служить, як його не заарештували досі.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ваші світлини, представлені на виставці, дуже тяжкі. Як, власне, і більшість світлин на виставці. З людської саме позиції, наскільки важко так працювати – знімати смерть, похорон, травми…"},{"insert":"\n\nКожен документаліст, який працює з такими темами, шукає власні шляхи, як це подолати. Ще до війни я працював з тяжкими темами у документалістиці і багато бачив трагічних подій. Це важко, але я думаю, що мені легше, аніж людині, яка того не бачить. Контакт з постійною трагедією, смертю, змінює людину, відбувається переоцінка цінностей.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Якщо знову до виставки. То чи така подача на часі? Бо війна досі є…"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ вважаю, що є культурна еліта, яка розуміє все, яка проти війни і розуміє, що ненависть породжує далі війну, помсту і тому подібне. Напевно, якщо привезти до Одеси виставку, реакція буде іншою. Там же через цей відсоток проросійський будуть зовсім інше пропагувати.\nЗнаєте, будь-які фотографії такі можуть бути розтлумачені кожною стороною по-своєму. Тут така реакція, в Одесі буде інша, а якщо в Москву її повезти, то скажуть, що це взагалі проукраїнська пропаганда.\nОт є фото на виставці, де українські військові звільняють людей. Люди два тижні в дитсадку сиділи, в підвалі. Прийшли двоє хлопців військових, принесли їжу, якісь ліки. І люди там плачуть і підпис, що військові їх звільнили. А у Москві то показати, так скажуть, що вони прийшли людей розстрілювати, бо військові з автоматами, а люди плачуть. Кожен буде тлумачити по-своєму. Це постійна суперечка.\nІ коли голова ЛОР говорив, що він не вірить, що військові вбили ту дівчину в Краматорську, це ж про мою фотографію мова. Я там був і це бачив. І якщо він думає, що українська армія нікого не вбиває, то, значить, він не був на війні. Там таке трапляється… І я не оцінюю – це погано чи добре. Але ми мусимо розуміти, що крім військових страждають і мирні люди. Насправді, я думаю, що такі виставки треба показувати дещо пізніше, коли рани вже загоються. Бо я розумію, наскільки тяжко приходити і на це дивитись.\nАле невже хтось розраховує, що весь світ має жаліти Україну, знати досконало історію України… І без того світ багато для нас зробив\nНа Заході усі розуміють становище ,усі проти агресії Росії, али вимагати від поляків, щоб вони показували тільки проукраїнську виставку – безглуздо.\nДуже прикро й соромно, що у нас є діти, яким ця організація, цей проект допомагають. Бо ж на них тут ставлять на них хрест, а поляки збирають кошти, забирають ту дитину, лікують її, і виліковують. Вони сімом дітям допомогли вже. А у Львові всі прийшли, покричали свої патріотичні лозунги і майже ніхто копійки не дав. І це дуже-дуже соромно, бо українці хочуть, аби всі нам допомагали, а самі собі допомагати не хочуть.\n"}]},"alignment":"Left","index_caption_enabled":true,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"untitled-83","cover_media_fit":"cover","part_of_stacked_page":true,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"Default","index_grid_item_grow":true,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2019-05-09T10:08:08Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":false,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-22T05:23:46Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/1","published":true,"text_columns":"Wide","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"Default","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":0,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":false,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":true,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"M","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"publications/essays-interviews/divis-info-interview-by-valeria-dubova-ukrainian-2016/untitled-83","imagegrid_columns":"L","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":false,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2019-05-09T10:08:41Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"S","slideshow_ratio":"auto","id":"2ef1788c-84db-4737-b7d4-86f8ce3e4b0f","subtype":null,"slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":"05901042-5860-4de2-bbc8-5c89bddf9baf","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Left","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"None","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":false,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":null,"text_content1":{},"title":"Video 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by Philip Dotsenko"},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"russian, 2016"},{"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 84","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":"#2d2d2d","hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":false,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"text","summary":{},"text_content2":{"ops":[{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"Максим Дондюк"},{"insert":"\n\nTalktome разносторонне интересуется искусством, и искусство фотографии для нас является одним из самых впечатляющих и насыщенных. \nМы поговорили с Максимом Дондюком — фотографом, чьи проекты и принты — это нечто большее, чем просто фиксирование отдельных моментов. \n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Привет. Рад, что получилось тебя настигнуть перед очередным путешествием. Далеко уезжаешь?"},{"insert":"\n\nВ Грузию. На фестиваль KOLGA TBILISI PHOTO, там будет выставка победителей и финалистов конкурса. Пока еще непонятно, кто победил. Все это будет длиться дней 5, а потом еще остаемся на пару недель – мы никогда не были в Грузии, а тут такая возможность.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А «мы» — это…?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ с Ирой – это моя невеста, она же и является моим артист-менеджером. В последний год она занимается вопросами по переписке, логистике, продаже принтов. В общем, она взяла на себя тяжелый удар. Я занимаюсь творчеством, она занимается бизнесом. Я очень не люблю онлайн общение – это выбивает меня из колеи, мне хочется больше натуральной жизни.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Может ли художник сочетать в себе два этих мира – творчество и бизнес?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ сочетал до того, как встретил Иру, и это было очень тяжело.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Другого выхода просто не было?"},{"insert":"\n\nДругого выхода просто не существует. В идеале, мы все равно сейчас ищем известного куратора или известную галерею, если мы говорим о работе в documentaryart, когда автор настроен на презентацию своих работ в галерейном и музейном пространстве. Маленькие галереи, которые на нас выходили, меня не устраивают, потому что этот объем работы мы и сами тянем, а с крупными галереями все сложно –туда не зовут кого попало, как и в крупные коллективы, вроде Magnum, которые зарабатывают больше на продаже принтов. Нужно работать и работать. В последний год я радикально изменил свой вектор – работа с журналами и медиа ушла на второй план. Я работаю только с проверенными людьми и с проверенными изданиями, с интересными изданиями и хорошими гонорарами, но абсолютно не делаю на это упор. Пытаюсь зарабатывать от продажи фотографии коллекционерам.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Такая модель заработка невозможна в Украине?"},{"insert":"\n\nВообще невозможна. Продажа фотографий может и есть, но тот уровень цен, за которые я продаю в Европе, отличается от уровня цен в Украине. Здесь человек подойдет и будет спрашивать у меня: почему твоя работа стоит такую-то сумму?\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Нужно объяснять, чем уникальна фотография?"},{"insert":"\n\nДа. В Европе человек подходит и не спрашивает, почему она столько стоит. Он интересуется типом бумаги, на чем была напечатана, в каком принтхаусе она была напечатана, какой лимит, какие размеры. Покупатель понимает, что лимитированные принты – это уникальные вещи и уважающий себя коллекционер не будет покупать не «limitededition». Но это мир, который существует там, а в Украине документальная фотография не относится к искусству вообще. Меня тут кем угодно могут считать — и репортером, и документалистом, но точно не человеком, который зарабатывает на продаже принтов.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А кем ты себя ощущаешь, в первую очередь?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ себя ощущаю документалистом, но в тоже время я, как это называют в Европе, visualartist. То бишь, мне не интересна фотография в плане «что? где? когда?», мне не интересна просто хроника. Мне не интересно рассказывать просто историю, хотя это идет вразрез с идеологией документальной фотографии. Меня больше интересует личная интерпретация автора, его наблюдения и фотография, пропущенная через его сознание и мироощущение.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"То есть, ты не снимаешь репортаж?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ начинал как репортер. Но сейчас я больше отстраняюсь от этого. Есть фотожурналисты, которых я уважаю, но большая часть из них мне не интересны.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Почему?"},{"insert":"\n\nИз-за идеологии, которую они ведут. Нужно быть честным и говорить честно, а не снимать все с одной стороны.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Это касается, в основном, военной фотографии?"},{"insert":"\n\nВ том числе. Я не считаю, что военная фотография останавливает войну, она ее пропагандирует. Я раньше считал, что военная фотография может изменить что-то, а сейчас мне интереснее являться человеком искусства, который работает в документальном жанре и выставлять работы в музее или галерее, а не печататься в журналах, ведь там у меня совсем другая свобода – другой формат фотографий, правильный свет, на правильной бумаге.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Но ты снимал войну (военный конфликт на Донбассе – прим. ред.), причем с обеих сторон…"},{"insert":"\n\nДа, да. В данном случае это был очень важный experience. С двух сторон я научился снимать еще когда туберкулез делал (фотопроект об эпидемии туберкулеза в Украине – прим. ред.). Снимая с одной стороны, очень сложно понять, что происходит. Ты становишься очень близок к одной из сторон, начинаешь ей доверять и кажется, что она говорит только правду. Как у меня было с больными туберкулезом, которые говорили, как все печально, как все плохо, что нужны деньги, а ты идешь к врачу и узнаешь, что герой кого-то изнасиловал или убил. И весы восприятия сразу стабилизируются. Так же мне было важно быть на Майдане с двух сторон, и в Крым поехать, и на Донбассе была возможность сначала как московский журналист работать, а потом с украинской армией снимать.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Скажи, из интернета ты тоже стараешься уходить?"},{"insert":"\n\nДа вообще ушел. Есть друзья близкие, с которыми я общаюсь, и они знают, чем я занимаюсь. А остальные вообще, наверное, не понимают, что со мной происходит. Для меня перестало быть значимым, чтоб другие люди знали, чем я занимаюсь, или оставаться в поле зрения. Люди, которые покупают работы, не в интернете меня находят. Если у тебя нет выставки в музее или галерее, то они тебя не найдут.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Новостная фотография тебе тоже не интересна?"},{"insert":"\n\nДа. Она стала мне безразлична. Даже когда в Париже был теракт, то я отказывался от съемок.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ты считаешь, что какие-то кадры лучше оставить неснятыми?"},{"insert":"\n\nЯ снимаю все, что происходит, все, что я могу и хочу снимать. Но, может быть, часть вещей нельзя показывать.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ты можешь дать определение хорошей фотографии?"},{"insert":"\n\nСложно сказать. Это же не спорт, где соревнуются «кто выше прыгнет». Когда меня попросили отобрать десять лучших своих фотографий, я не смог этого сделать. Они все разные, у них у всех разные истории. Что значит лучшие? Визуально хорошие или эмоции, которые я переживал в тот момент, или что случилось позже? Я понял, что я не могу выделить вообще ни одной своей фотографии. В каждой моей фотографии часть моей души и часть того, что останется после меня. Со временем у человека вырабатывается визуальный вкус и становится легче отличить хорошую фотографию от плохой. Но все равно это какой-то стандарт, ведь когда мы смотрим на фотографию, наш разум работает как компьютер, и многих вещей может просто не осознавать, а фотография может быть шедевром в данный момент. Разум может этого не понимать, но человек это почувствует.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Твои стандарты к хорошей фотографии сильно изменились с начала карьеры?"},{"insert":"\n\nМое сознание меняется очень быстро. То, что год назад было для меня идеалом, сейчас находится на противоположной стороне. Я сам меняюсь, и меняется мой подход к творчеству. Именно поэтому я не хочу вести группы учеников и читать какие-то глубокие лекции, мне интереснее рассказывать о своем пути.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"В одном из своих интервью ты рассказывал, что во время выступления перед студентами-фотографами, один из учеников показал тебе свои работы до и после поступления в университет. Те, что были сделаны «до», оказались живее сделанных «после». Как ты тогда сказал, парня просто научили зарабатывать деньги. Ты на себе эти шаблоны чувствуешь?"},{"insert":"\n\nМожет мне кажется, но я избавился от влияния очень многих факторов. До этого я воспитывался здесь всевозможными фотографами, своим кругом общения, которые навязывал мне свое мнение, определенное мышление. Это все делает нас узниками сознания, потому что творческий человек может делать все, что захочет и не важно, кто что скажет. Упала планка важности «что про тебя скажут, что про тебя подумают». Иногда тебе навязывают какую-то точку зрения, с которой ты соглашаешься, но чувствуешь дискомфорт внутри. Потому что так надо, так сказали наставники. Я сейчас живу по другим принципам – если я чего-то внутри чувствую, что хочу это делать, а разум говорит, что это катастрофа и полный абсурд, то разуму я говорю гудбай. Разум всегда говорит только о плохом, но если посмотреть на мое развитие в фотографии, то это все иррациональные действия, которые я никак не предсказывал.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ну да. Туберкулез ты снимал совершенно без денег. Не было желания плюнуть и уйти в студию или снимать свадьбы?"},{"insert":"\n\nНу… Наверное, привычка еще со службы на флоте – рубить концы, называется. Это означает, что ты не можешь пристать к причалу. Есть вещи, которые мне не нравятся, они как адамово яблоко – соблазняют меня. В тот момент я четко и агрессивно давал понять, что свадьбы я снимать не буду. Тогда я оставил для себя два варианта заработать: либо получить публикации, либо выиграть на конкурсе. Все остальные варианты были отрублены полностью. Но ничего не дается легко.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Тебя поддерживал хоть кто-то? Может, родители?"},{"insert":"\n\nНет (смеется). Сложный вопрос. С родителями у меня непростые отношения, я с ними давно не живу, и они не вмешиваются в мою жизнь. У меня тогда появились новые друзья, которые мне помогали. Саша Гляделов много помогал – давал советы, познакомил меня с врачом, когда я думал, что заболею.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Этот проект изменил твою жизнь?"},{"insert":"\n\nДа, произошла полная переоценка ценностей. Мне было тяжело приезжать в Киев и общаться с друзьями, которые рассказывали о своих проблемах – у одного украли телефон, у другого ушла девушка. А я знаю человека, принявшего то, что завтра или послезавтра он умрет. И он счастлив – выходит на улицу, дышит воздухом.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А что, по-твоему, счастье?"},{"insert":"\n\nШикарное чувство, когда ты свободен и никому ничего не должен – ни объяснять, ни доказывать, ни рассказывать. Нет этого чувства долга. Я вообще против понятия коллективного счастья, когда всем хорошо. Есть мое личное счастье и счастье близких мне людей. А вот это «я должен» – это какая-то навязанная обществом идея. Для того чтоб избавиться от этого влияния, ты должен снизить свою важность и просто жить в свое удовольствие. Найти равновесие.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А ты это равновесие нашел? Ты счастлив?"},{"insert":"\n\nДа. Я сейчас вообще в каком-то раю нахожусь. Хотя, это скорее навязано сознанием. Думаю, раньше моя жизнь была ничуть не хуже, просто я по-другому смотрю на одни и те же вещи. Думаю, фотография и есть моя философия – она меня меняет, я развиваюсь вместе с ней.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"А каким ты был до фотографии?"},{"insert":"\n\nДумаю, это лучше спросить у кого-то другого. Наверное, был более резким, критичным, самоуверенным. Я и сейчас такой, но мне не нужно ничего доказывать. Я понял, что если я хочу, чтоб люди воспринимали меня таким, какой я есть, то и мне нужно воспринимать людей такими, какие они есть, и не пытаться их изменить и особенно указывать им на их недостатки. Просто, наверное, постарел.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ритм жизни тоже стал более размеренным?"},{"insert":"\n\nТемп жизни у меня идет скачками. Но раньше я бежал и куда-то опаздывал. Вся моя жизнь заключалась в том, чтоб что-то успеть. А сейчас у меня больше времени – я успеваю заниматься собой, ходить в спортзал, читать книги, встречаться с друзьями, работать и не зацикливаюсь на том, чтобы кому-то что-то доказывать. При этом жизнь стала более ритмичной, но чувствую я себя увереннее и спокойнее. Это как взять пилота Формулы-1 – он спокоен, сосредоточен, он контролирует ситуацию, у него нет паники, но при этом скорость у него безумная. 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From the beginning of March 2014, protests by pro-Russian and anti-government groups took place in the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts of Ukraine, commonly collectively called the \"Donbass\", in the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution and the Euromaidan movement. These demonstrations, which followed the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation (February to March 2014), and which were part of a wider group of concurrent pro-Russian protests across southern and eastern Ukraine, escalated into an armed conflict between the separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics (DPR and LPR respectively), and the Ukrainian government. In the Donetsk People's Republic, from May 2014 until a change of the top leadership in August 2014, some of the top leaders were Russian citizens. According to the Ukrainian government, at the height of the conflict in mid-2014, Russian paramilitaries were reported to make up between 15% to 80% of the 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The first experience I had when I was 5, with my mother, who was enthusiast, I used to watch how she processed family photos in a darkroom. Later I was given my first soviet camera SMENA, and started doing my own photos. After the collapse of the Soviet Union to buy and process film became more difficult and expensive, so my mother stopped doing it and me too. The second try was at the age of 12, than I joined the photo club, began shooting film and processing photos myself. But my enthusiasm didn’t last long. The third time I came back to photography was at the age of 24. I had a routine job, which I went every day, year after year, time flew quickly and nothing changed in my life. I understood that I need some hobby. I became interested in photography. All my free time I studied photography, read all kinds of literature and practiced. It allowed me to travel around the region I lived at that moment, after I started travel around the country. With the help of photography I can live the live of any person, to be present during different events and to empathize with them. My professional career began in Ukrainian media as a photojournalist in 2007. Since 2010 I’m a freelancer, work on creating and promoting my own documentary projects. Photography it’s my personal visual diary. It’s not a hobby or work for me, photography it’s my philosophy and religion. I don’t believe in God, but photography helps me to discover and understand this world.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What equipment do you use?"},{"insert":"\n\nEverything is quite simple, starting from 2015 I use Nikon D810, before I had Nikon D3s, which I won at the contest for my project «TB epidemic in Ukraine». As for the lenses, I use only one lens 35mm, it’s an old film lens with autofocus. I’m used to this focal length and don’t need zoom. I must be half a meter from the object. It is very close distance, you began to feel the same emotions, fear, happiness, sadness. When people look at such photos, they also feel emotions of your character. I also have 50mm film lens, but it’s more like emergency lens, as it happened that 35mm broke or in case I need to make some portraits for the magazines. I don’t like artificial light and don’t use flash. I take photos only in RAW format, as color correction is very important for me, I pay special attention to it. And I don’t use continuous shooting.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Where do you get your creative inspiration from?"},{"insert":"\n\nMostly I’m influenced not by photographers but by writers and painters. Each time I come to a new country, I visit museums, galleries. I love paintings of artists who worked in realism. They painted such important battle scenes and historical moments but never forgot about aesthetic side. Their paintings are very beautiful.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"How would you define your own photographic style?"},{"insert":"\n\nI’m a documentary photographer. But emotions and visual language are more important than facts (what, where, when?). I feel myself more like an artist than a photojournalist. What, from your point of view, are the major challenges in photography? I work a lot with international magazines and know that in this sphere there is a big problems now. They already don’t have such budgets as some years ago, and mostly really good stories were shoot by photographers independently, without assignments. But if to talk about contemporary photography, I think in this field everything is more than good, and it has great perspectives.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Can you describe your workflow for „culture of confrontation“?"},{"insert":"\n\nIn mid 2013, because of a number of reasons, I seriously thought about documentary films. It seemed to me that they tell socially relevant stories much better than photography. I decided to make a documentary film about one of my projects about the Crimea Sich. In summer 2013 I with my brother, went to the Crimea Mountains, spending the last money for the equipment. It was an attempt to find answers to the questions that griped my mind. After I was selected to a grand for directors of documentary films, it was held by an American Documentary Film Festival in Ukraine. During that period began Euromaidan in Ukraine. Prior to December 1, 2013 I couldn’t understand whether I need to continue working on my film, or to go to Maidan with a camera. I also didn’t know what I want to do at Maidan, to shoot video or photo. So at the beginning I just watched, analyzed, tried to find the answers. But, suddenly, I was given the second photographic breath and understood that I looked at Maidan through associative images, which contains the second associative level. I wasn’t trying to show what was happening as a photojournalist. With my photos, I wanted to awake people’s strongest associations and emotions, wanted them to see what I saw. For me it wasn’t a revolution at the Independence Square, in front of me opened battle scenes from legends and fairy tales. During clashes between police and protesters, I felt myself like in a parallel, fictional world. It was a battle between good and evil, light and shadow, fire and frost. On the revolutionary canvas creepy bloody scenes interwove with incredibly beautiful, from visually side, views. The line between reality and fiction had gone. I understood that photography for me isn’t just the way to tell the story, but also a visual image that holds emotions, allows the viewer to interpret the reality and think about important life questions.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Why do you take this pictures (culture of confrontation)?"},{"insert":"\n\nI began to shoot for the reason that it happened in my country, in the city where I live. At some point I realized that it touches me personally, and this is a historic moment in my country.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"link":"https://www.mologue.de/de/ausgabe/maxim-dondyuk/"},"insert":"Link"},{"insert":"\n"}]},"alignment":"Left","index_caption_enabled":true,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"untitled-82","cover_media_fit":"cover","part_of_stacked_page":true,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"Default","index_grid_item_grow":true,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2019-05-09T10:07:43Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":false,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-22T05:20:31Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/1","published":true,"text_columns":"Wide","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"Default","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":0,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":false,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":true,"cta_url":"https://www.mologue.de/de/ausgabe/maxim-dondyuk/","content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"M","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"publications/essays-interviews/mologue-interview-by-johannes-brummer-english-2016/untitled-82","imagegrid_columns":"L","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":false,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2019-05-09T10:28:31Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"S","slideshow_ratio":"auto","id":"dcea79e4-ba64-4aee-b658-065d376737f5","subtype":null,"slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":"b7fb5cbd-cda4-4a6c-875c-5c4bf81ca7db","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Left","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"None","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":false,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":{"menu_disabled":false,"set":null,"cover_media_navigation":false,"parent":null,"text_content1":{},"title":"EXHIBITIONS","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":null,"hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":true,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"index","summary":{},"text_content2":{},"alignment":"Center","index_caption_enabled":false,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"exhibitions","cover_media_fit":"contain","part_of_stacked_page":false,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"M","index_grid_item_grow":false,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2020-01-21T09:40:09Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":false,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-21T09:40:31Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"submenu","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/2","published":true,"text_columns":"One","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"M","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":-556359680,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":true,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":false,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"L","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"exhibitions","imagegrid_columns":"M","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":true,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2020-01-21T09:40:09Z","index_layout":"Grid","index_text_size":"M","slideshow_ratio":"1:1","id":"65cff99d-6fec-407c-8319-9fcba32ac756","subtype":null,"slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":null,"invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Center","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"M","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_co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speech to exhibition \"Culture of Confrontation\""},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"in the Städtische Galerie Ehingen, Germany"},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"by Volker Sonntag, english, 2019"},{"insert":"\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 213","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":null,"hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":true,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"text","summary":{},"text_content2":{"ops":[{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"Introduction to exhibition \"Culture of Confrontation\""},{"insert":"\n"},{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"in the Städtische Galerie Ehingen, Germany, 2019."},{"insert":"\n\nIn winter 2013/2014 the Independence Square in Kyiv - the Ukrainian word for place is \"maidan\" - became a focal point of world events.\n\nAfter the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 states such as Ukraine were in one political tug-of-war between Russia and the EU. The economic situation of the general population had worsened. The state was weakened, a network of oligarchs and old party networks had taken control over public property and the media. They used the political parties for their purposes, unemployment increased and corruption flourished. In November 2013, demonstrations began on the Maidan against these conditions. The reason was that President Yanukovych had obeyed pressure from Moscow not to sign an association agreement with the EU. The protesters behaved peacefully, concerts took place, often there was a veritable festival atmosphere. Maxim Dondyuk, who lived in Kyiv, was there from the beginning.\n\nThen the situation escalated. On the night of December 1st, the demonstrators were dispersed by a special police unit with brutal force. Increasingly, the situation got out of control, public buildings were occupied by protesters and barricades built. On 18 February 2014 the Militia shot with live ammunition. In the end there were over 120 dead and countless wounded. On 21 February the conflict ended with an internationally signed contract, Russian friendly President Yanukovych fled to Moscow.\n\nHot spots such as Euromaidan, as it is called today, attract hundreds of media people, always in search of the spectacular picture but without the time to deal with the backgrounds. A cameraman working for an American news channel told that within two weeks he had worked in five countries on three continents. In our media society information has become a highly profitable commodity that no longer is being measured by the criteria of truth and lie but by their attractiveness - they have to sell well by satisfying the sensation-seeking public.\n\nDondyuk noted that about 200 photographers were on the field, barely one spoke the language or understood the history of his country. Their inner distance was visible for everyone because mostly their cameras were equipped with long telephoto lenses by which you can zoom near what happens far away without being close.\n\nIn contrast to their working routine Dondyuk's reportages are characterized by empathy and compassion. He is interested in people. For three months he lived with the demonstrators on the Maidan. Instead of using a telephoto lens he works consistently with a 35mm wide-angle lens so that for a close-up he must get close to the people he is photographing. This gives his pictures their strong emotional intensity that we deeply feel.\n\nHe is not even a meter away of the three praying women or the three soldiers in this room whom a protester is offering flowers. Each face of the three women touches us with an individual expression of grief, sorrow, and pleading to God. Here Dondyuk has created an iconic picture of pain, such as Matthias Grünewald in the Isenheim Altarpiece brought to timeless expression with the three mourning figures at the foot of the crucifixion.\n\nAt the same time, Dondyuk combines such closeness with respect. In the last room of our exhibition he does not aim the camera at the faces or injuries of the wounded and dead but on the priest, the paramedics and the relatives. Their feelings affect us emotionally much more than a voyeuristic portrayal of the horror.\n\nSuch proximity to the motif creates an emotional impact that can be experienced best in the large formats in our exhibition. The four heavily armed, muzzled militiamen in the next room who roll away an oil barrel are moving straight towards the photographer, their eyes meet him and thus us. Dondyuk paid his tribute for such proximity with two injuries by rubber bullets.\n\n\"This revolution has changed not only myself  but also my photography and visual language,” he says. \"Of course I was on the side of protesters but it was also important for me to know what on the other side of the barricades was going on. I did not want to show the good guys and the bad guys but the confrontation of two different philosophies of the world - \"the culture of confrontation\".\n\nThis is how Dondyuk's artistic intentions have changed in the course of this project. He was no longer concerned with documenting the actual event, instead he wanted to work out its universal human character, as Shakespeare did in his historical dramas like Macbeth, King Lear or Richard II.\n\nTherefore his relation to the event has changed. He goes on distance and shows a panorama from a high perspective. One can look at these scenes as human moodscapes, like paintings of Bruegel in which due to the wide depth of focus of the wide-angle-objective we can observe unbelievably many details. These pictures are no longer made for the small-format magazines but for large formats, as in our exhibition.\n\nNow the aesthetic design becomes very important. Dondyuk photographs digitally and edits files on the computer specifically for their aesthetic effect.\n\nA central design element becomes the Light. The external circumstances are already spectacular. Fire and smoke of burning barricades, foggy steam from water cannons, reflections on the wet ground and the low winter sun, which intensifies shadows, contrasts and plasticity create highly dramatic moods like Baroque paintings from Turner, Caravaggio or Hollywood fantasy movies. The human drama becomes a drama of light.\n\nThe artist also makes the Light shine as a spiritual power as in paintings by Rembrandt. Have a look at the light of the candles the three women are holding in their hands and see how it is being repeated in the dome of the Michaelskirche during the funeral, but also on the tops of the tents.\n\nThe protesters built barricades with burning car tires and buses. Fire has always been a symbol of revolution. In the next room emerges a black shadow figure who bears a striking resemblance to the allegory of freedom in Delacroix's revolutionary painting \"Freedom Leads the People\". But in another picture, a single man stares shocked in a fiery inferno of burning buses. Such scenes are reminiscent of gothic paintings by Bruegel or Hieronymus Bosch of the Last Judgment where volcanoes break out of the earth and burn down houses, mountains, and seas to mark the end of humanity. \n\nAt the same time fire also visualizes what happens inside the people. They are transformed from a self-determined individual into an element of a mass. In his great study \"Mass and Power\" Nobel Prize winner Elias Canetti analyses the fire as a mass symbol. I quote: \"Mass symbols express the essential properties of the mass. The fire is sudden, everywhere, it is contagious and insatiable. The mass also forms and inflames suddenly by an external event, few can resist its contagion, they want to keep going and are hardly controllable anymore. The crowd feels attracted from fire and hurries to the scene of the fire, in front of which the individuals feel connected and close to all the others.\" This rapturous, almost ritualistic mood of the mass in front of a big fire Dondyuk recorded in a picture in the next room.\n\nThe antithesis of fire is the coldness of the ice, which means the death of all life, stagnation, and endpoint. Because of the winter and the water cannons, ice was everywhere on the Maidan in impressive formations. In C.D.Friedrich's painting “the lost hope” the ship stranded in the Arctic Ocean can be seen as a symbol of the lost hope for democratic freedom in the era of political restoration after Napoleon's defeat. In Dondyuk’s Maidan pictures ice could also be interpreted as a metaphor of the political and social situation in Ukraine which the protesters try to melt by their fire.\n\nIt is no coincidence that \"Songs of Ice and Fire\" is the title of the original book for the most successful American television series \"Game of Thrones\", which settles in a fictitious medieval world and thematizes the eternal struggle for power and Good and Evil. It has been always the same pictures that accompany our human history: the burning of Troy, of Jerusalem, the old Rome, Constantinople, the world wars, the pictures from Iraq, Syria. This timeless ubiquity of violence we also experience in Dondyuk's photographs. With their helmets, big shields and rubber truncheons the militia could be moved from the Maidan directly into the Middle Ages and the demonstrators with their wooden beating sticks and construction helmets could be directly related to the peasant wars.\n\nThe militiamen with their big shields form human walls as we know from Roman and medieval battle orders. These scenes convey what Canetti has analyzed as the essence of the mass: The police have lost their self-responsibility and individuality and are just a number written on their helmets. Their identity has been reduced to enforcers of an outside command. But the demonstrators have lost their individuality and self-control, too. They became part of the angry flames of destructive fire which they inflame as black shadow ghosts with Molotov cocktails and burning car tires.\n\nWith the pictures of this exhibition, Dondyuk has dissolved the border between documentation and art. Documentation has to be truthful and objective: This event happened exactly as the photographer has photographed it. But what is a reality? For Dondyuk reality became translucent on the Maidan. He says, \"I suddenly saw no revolution on Independence Square anymore, in front of me opened Battle scenes from legends and fairytales. Euromaidan became one of the visually most beautiful revolutions, like scenes in a Hollywood movie. The border between reality and fiction disappeared for me.” This personal subjective experience has guided him in his recordings.\n\nSo did he distort reality? Did he play down the terrible by its aestheticization? What difference does it make for us viewers whether the terrible is real or fiction and carefully staged by a painter or film director? Is there beauty in the terrible - volcanic eruptions, thunderstorms, forest fires, the planes in the World Trade Center in NY? - that fascinates us deeply? These are questions that have to be discussed in detail and controversially why we cannot deal with it here and now.\n\nBut what we can say is that Dondyuk´s photographs have gained new and complex dimensions through his devotion to art. What is it that makes a good work of art? Art arises from a touching experience that is aesthetically so designed that through the artwork also the viewers are being touched. It must be designed so that it provides us with many references and associations which we can connect with our personal and cultural experiences and those from the collective unconscious. \n\nI want to conclude with my thoughts about two pictures in this room which touch me very much: The first is about the motif of the candle as a symbol of life and hope as you can see it in the image of the three praying women in this room. This motif is being resumed in the next room. There it is a young protester holding a Molotov cocktail, a devoted expression on his face, like a sacral candle in his hands that another man just ignites. This young man is outshone by a bright, aura-like light, as we know it from paintings by Rembrandt. There are so many ambiguous meanings in this picture that one could write a short story about it.\n\nThe young cellist of the Dakh Daughters Band is on her way to play a concert on the Maidan. With her face painted white, her huge eyes, the long headscarf and the fur coat she appears as a being from another world, reminiscent of angelic representations in medieval paintings. The cello box on her back makes one think of wings, but also of a person she carries. She moves towards a doorway in the boarded-off space, into one other world, looking in our direction. Iconographically it is the motif of a guardian angel, a shaman, a spiritual leader like she appears in the guise of Beatrice in Dante's “Divine Comedy” who leads him through the nine celestial spheres. For me, she has protected Dondyuk on his way on the 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He’s been a very busy boy since we spoke to him last (check our past interview with him here), so we are well pleased he’s made time for us once again. This time Maxim has kindly given us a run down of what’s in his photography bag and why… He also speaks about his photohgraphy, and has provided us with some killer back stage fashion week pictures all edited with our cross process film emulation presets +PS LOOKS N°3.\n\nMaxim’s Gear\nEverything is quite simple, starting from 2015 I use Nikon D810, before that I had a Nikon D3s, which I won in a contest for my project «TB epidemic in Ukraine». As for the lenses, I use only one lens 35mm, it’s an old film lens with autofocus. I’m used to this focal length and don’t need zoom. I must be half a meter from the object I am shooting. It is a very close distance, so you began to feel the same emotions, fear, happiness or sadness. When people look at such photos, they also feel emotions of your character. I also have a 50mm film lens, but it’s more like an emergency lens, if it happens that my 35mm lens breaks or in case I need to make some portraits for magazines.\n\nI don’t like artificial light and don’t use a flash. I take photos only in RAW format, as color correction is very important for me, I pay special attention to it. And I don’t use continuous shooting.\n\nMaxim’s Photography\nMy photography it’s my personal visual diary. It’s not a hobby or work for me, it’s my philosophy and my religion. It helps me to discover and understand this world. With the help of photography I can live the life of any person, to be present during different events and to empathize with them.\n\nWhen taking photos I always think about the emotions they evoke. Photography has both an emotional and visual side. Photography does not only answer questions like – what, where and when, but it also evokes personal associations. For example – the plot of your favorite book, film or memories from your childhood. A good photo is an emotional photo. People should feel all of the emotions from the moment the picture was taken, and of course – you should feel your own emotions too. If a photo is technically good but has no emotion, this type of photo in my opinion is dead. Of course all photographers need to know the technical aspects of photography.. But I believe they need to learn them once, and then forget about them – and just make everything organically – only with 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Over the course of the next years, the civil war in Eastern Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea left deep scars in the country. Maxim Dondyuk, from Ukraine himself, photographed the EuroMaidan revolution and documented child soldier camps and tuberculosis in Crimea. Are We Europe sat down with him and his wife, Irina, to discuss their work together as well as Maxim’s experience as a photographer on the front line.\n\n“People didn’t live in Russia, but they lived in the Soviet Union, they remember how it was, it’s a dream about being young again, about going back to the way things were.”\n\nMaxim is 30 years old, has a long beard and tattoos. He’s restless, sympathetic and passionate. He and his wife Irina are staying at the artist-in-residence housing in central Paris for a few months. What is perhaps the most striking about his photos is the scale of the clashes he captures. Just as he says himself: they look like epic historical battles.\n\n“After I was in Ukraine for 2 weeks, I opened my eyes. I forgot about the real situation and started to see it like another world.” When I ask him how it felt to stand so close to the protesters and to actually be there, surrounded by flying Molotov cocktails, he quickly stands up, pretends to have a camera in front of his face and clicks away. “I tried before to take pictures this close. But in Maidan I started to take in the whole scene, with those hundreds of people. It was very hard not to create a picture or painting.”\n\nHe is silent for a while, then says “I don’t believe, I don’t believe, I don’t believe, I don’t believe,” while still holding the camera in front of his face.\n\nHe tells me there were in total about 200 photographers, with 20 photographers right next to him most of the time. All with big lenses, snapping away mostly at people’s faces.\n\n“But I was just thinking about stories. I kind of lost my mind and only saw battles, legends and I tried to put what I saw in the camera, in the frame. I wanted to put my emotion in the frame. It didn’t matter what happened, it was not the Ukrainian revolution anymore. For me the legends just continued.” \n\nBattles and Legends\n\nThe legend’s spell broke with a bang. A grenade exploded nearby and a shard shot into his left leg two days after he got there. He touches his leg and says, “at first, I didn’t even feel it. And then my leg really started to hurt and my friends took me to a hospital. It was a 40-minute operation – they took out the shard.”\n\nThe next day, all bandaged up, he slumped his way between the protesters again. He reenacts this for me, limping his leg and pretending to climb barricades and dodge Molotovs. “I couldn’t, I could not not go. I needed to go, go, go.” His sentences are short and active, with his English sometimes failing him, yet it doesn’t take away from his powerful acting. Now Irina steps in, having mostly listened to him and occasionally helped him with translating. “It was good, because after he was wounded, it was more peaceful. He could rest for a few days.”\n\nWe drink our coffee and look out over Paris for some time. We even talk about the weather, the beautiful buildings and the things they’ve done and seen here. But then Maxim takes us back to the battleground.\n\n“It wasn’t all as dangerous as what people think about it. But sometimes protesters threw grenades next to me and in other situations, police officers helped me. It was a crazy situation. Some policemen were crazy though.”\n\n“In every life, every culture, some people are bad and you can really see that in protests.”\n\nSuddenly we are back and right in between the protesters and the police, with Molotov cocktails flying over. He whistles a ”wooooo” sound, like a falling bomb. 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Lost Photos of Life Before the Chernobyl Disaster"},{"insert":"\n\nMaxim Dondyuk is preserving evidence of people’s lives in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, before the nuclear explosion turned their communities into ghost towns.\n\nThe name evokes the chilling imagery of a ravaged nuclear reactor, tens of thousands of displaced Soviets fleeing radiation-contaminated homes, the ghostly overgrown landscape today. But that is not what the Ukrainian photographer Maxim Dondyuk has sought out during his exhaustive trips to the Chernobyl exclusion zone over the past few years.\n\nBefore the nuclear disaster in 1986 made 1,000 square miles of land uninhabitable to humans for thousands of years to come, Ukrainian families lived in cities and villages within the region, some for many generations. They attended school, went sailing, traveled, celebrated Christmases.\n\nMr. Dondyuk, who was born three years before the nuclear reactor exploded, found decaying pictures in the abandoned homes and buildings that encapsulated the previous era. He wants to ensure it isn’t forgotten.\n\n“It’s memory, it’s really important history, part of my life,” he said in a Skype interview. “And now every year, with radiation, with dust, with rain, with something else, it’s destruction, destruction.”\n\nAround 1:30 a.m. on April 26, 1986, sixteen years after construction on the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant began, alarms rang out at a local fire station.\n\nA test to determine how Reactor No. 4 would operate after losing power went awry, and a sudden increase in power levels triggered an explosion that spewed radiation into the air, and set the nuclear reactor ablaze. Hundreds of thousands of Soviet citizens were eventually evacuated from their homes in what would become the exclusion zone, taking with them only identity documents, food and clothing. Within days, many cities and villages had become ghost towns.\n\nMr. Dondyuk visited the restricted region 10 years ago on photojournalism assignments. But in 2015, after spending months photographing the Ukrainian revolution, he returned to the radioactive region, focusing on its representation of a former era. But while wandering and photographing the abandoned structures, Mr. Dondyuk began rummaging through drawers and piles of wreckage in rooms, only to find faded rolls of black-and-white film caked in dust and debris as well as old portrait photographs and letters — stained by moisture and the elements, but still legible.\n\n“I want to learn as much as possible about what was in Chernobyl zone before the explosion,” Mr. Dondyuk said in an email, “and to save these visual, historical objects, if in my country nobody bothered to do it for more than 30 years.”\n\nAfter collecting and storing the thousands of written and photographic documents he unearthed during his visits, Mr. Dondyuk began scanning and digitally archived his findings. He has called his efforts the “Untitled Project.”\n\nBy reading the letters and postcards decorated with roses and hammer-and-sickle iconography — conveying everything from generic well wishes for the new year, to solemn love letters like those between a woman and her army-enlisted partner — Mr. Dondyuk started following these narratives to try to piece together the former residents’ lives. In the case of the army couple, the woman wrote about creating a future with her husband in Chernobyl.\nAlthough not every photograph has a clear story, some portraits conveyed the serene normalcy the region enjoyed before 1986. Once cleaned off, the artifacts revealed a land that once hosted wedding processions in fields, or provided family bonding time through sunbathing on picnic blankets and fishing expeditions.\n\nIn a meadow, square-jawed young men wearing military fatigues share a light and enjoy a group smoke break. Out in the woods, a group of mop-topped musicians dressed in bell-bottoms and tweed have set up guitars and drums, possibly for an album photo shoot, much like bands today. And a woman and children, bundled up in head scarves as well as thick blouses and skirts, crack smiles while surrounded by snowfall and houses.\n\n“You started understanding the life of the people, how they lived, what they thought, who they loved, how they celebrated their weddings, and so on,” said Irina Dondyuk, Mr. Dondyuk’s wife, agent and translator, “so it’s quite interesting to follow the life of people.”\n\nThe Dondyuks admitted that the Untitled Project is an illegal venture. Nothing can be taken from the radioactive areas (although that hasn’t deterred looters from raiding money, furniture and other resources to sell). Even though the films, photographs and letters had been left behind for decades, Mr. Dondyuk said he hid the contraband during every checkpoint search at the exclusive zone. But in the future, in addition to preserving the items and exhibiting them in a book or even a museum setting, they hope to create a digital map with geo tags, allowing people to look up their homes and see artifacts previously lost to the disaster.\n\n“We have iPhones, we don’t have these photos everywhere, we won’t miss them,” Ms. Dondyuk said about our relationship to physical photographs. “But people from their time, they didn’t have these modern devices, and they had only these photos, only these letters that meant a lot to them. And at the moment, they don’t have them.”\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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miasta widma: zdjęcia sprzed katastrofy w 1986 roku"},{"insert":"\n\nKatastrofa w Czarnobylskiej Elektrowni Jądrowej w 1986 roku zmieniła bieg historii mieszkańców wielu miast i wiosek w promieniu 30 kilometrów. W ciągu jednej nocy wyludniły się i stały się “miastami widmami”. Dzisiaj prawie każdy wie, że sam Czarnobyl jest niebezpieczną i opuszczoną przez ludzi ziemią, ale co wiemy o jej przeszłości? Na to pytanie poprzez odnalezione na zgliszczach tych osad fotografie i inne artefakty odpowiada w swoim “Untitled Project” Maxim Dondyuk.\n\nOkoło 10 lat temu wyruszył po raz pierwszy do Czarnobyla. Początkowo – robił zdjęcia. I to fotografia miała być środkiem eksploracji opuszczonego terenu. – Chciałem zrozumieć tragedię i pokazać jej wpływ na przyrodę i ludzi. Z biegiem czasu odkryłem inną stronę Czarnobyla. W opuszczonych domach (...) przechowywano tak wiele niezapomnianych rzeczy, które przez cały ten czas gniły pod grubą warstwą błota i śmieci. Stare filmy, dokumenty, pocztówki, listy miłosne, fotografie, wspomnienia, gazety. Łupieżcy zgrabili wszystko, co miało jakąkolwiek wartość, ale zostawili morze artefaktów. Nie mogłem patrzeć, jak znika ta część historii – mówi Maxim.\n\nDondyuk zaczął zbierać wszystko, co napotkał i co miało według niego wartość, choćby sentymentalną. Nie przewidział jednak, że na znalezionych kliszach zachowały się zdjęcia. Fotografie przedstawiające codzienność ludzi, którzy tam mieszkali – ich święta, wyprawy wędkarskie, wesela czy narodziny dzieci.\n\n- Czarnobyl nie jest już dla mnie związany tylko ze śmiercią i tragedią. Przeszukując stosy śmieci w prawie doszczętnie zniszczonych domach, znalazłem szczątki szczęśliwego życia, które zaginęło nie tylko dla całego świata, ale także dla rodzin bohaterów tych zdjęć – dodaje.\n\nNad projektem “Untitled Project” pracuje już ponad dwa lata. I choć w dużej mierze to fotografie z przeszłości, Dondyuk zestawia je z aktualnymi zdjęciami – opuszczonych bloków, zdewastowanych budek telefonicznych, kiosków i karuzel dla dzieci. Są wśród nich również filmy, dokumenty, pocztówki, listy miłosne, pamiętniki, gazety, grafiki. Początkowo wszystkie wyglądały jak śmieci. Ich wyczyszczenie i uporządkowanie zajęło mu dużo czasu.\n\nDo tej pory zeskanował już kilka tysięcy artefaktów. Archiwum jest tak duże, że nie zmieściłoby się w jednym artykule, a nawet w książce. – Mam nadzieję, że w przyszłości przygotuję wielki projekt memoriałowy dla muzeum – podsumowuje swój projekt Maxim.\n\nJego celem jest odtworzenie atmosfery Czarnobyla przed wybuchem – bez łez, smutku i bólu. Chce pokazać przeszłość poprzez artefakty, opowiedzieć historię szczęśliwych radzieckich rodzin, które żyły tam ponad 30 lat temu. – To historia, która jest prawie nieznana, a tak ważna – wyjaśnia artysta. Bo, jak podkreślił w wywiadzie, którego udzielił dla “New York Timesa”, “każdego roku przez promieniowanie, kurz, deszcz, i wszystkie inne czynniki, panuje tam destrukcja”.\n\nMaxim mocno podkreśla, że jego projekt to nie tylko tragedia z 1986 roku, ale to historia, która powinna być dla nas przestrogą i nauczką. “Untitled Project” to dla swoiste medium dla jego deklaracji. – Dla wszystkich Czarnobyl kojarzy się tylko z tragedią w elektrowni jądrowej i jej konsekwencjami. Osobiście jestem przeciwny elektrowniom jądrowym, myślę, że są one szkodliwe dla naszej planety i dla nas, dla ludzi – deklaruje fotograf.\n\nI dodaje: – W tym projekcie chciałbym pokazać szczęśliwe, pełne miłości i radości życie ludzi, którzy tu mieszkali, zanim ich domy zostały wchłonięte przez radioaktywną chmurę. Chcę pokazać drugą stronę Czarnobyla – opowieść sprzed tragedii, pokazać życie, jak to było i kto tam mieszkał. To jest mój główny cel. W żadnym wypadku nie chcę, by myślano, że opowiadam o tym, jak dobrze się żyło ludziom w czasach ZSRR. Nie, to nie ma z tym nic wspólnego. Chciałem pokazać, jak wyglądało życie przed katastrofą, pokazać, jak dobre może być życie bez tak niszczycielskiej mocy, jaką są elektrownie jądrowe.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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la vida y la muerte"},{"insert":"\n\nLa guerra tiene efectos perennes más allá de palabras e ideologías, la guerra desata con todo su aliento la destrucción de la humanidad contra sí misma.\nEl proyecto Inter vitam et mortem del fotógrafo ucraniano Maxim Dondyuk puede interpretarse como una reflexión sobre las cicatrices que dejan las guerras en las almas humanas. No hay un solo retrato deshonesto en la serie documental que nos enfrenta a la guerra desde una zona segura.\nAlejados de las revistas periodísticas que acusan un momento difícil desde la parte comercial, este tipo de proyectos documentales miran en la dirección de otros medios como los digitales o las galerías de arte.\n\nDondyuk, quien se ha enfrentado a la guerra ya en otros proyectos, Crimea Sich, 2010-13 y Culture of confrontation, 2013; recrea para nosotros las consecuencias de un conflicto enmarcado en escenas de inquietante silencio. Una exploración de los territorios del este de Ucrania, devastados por la guerra, hogares, escuelas, hospitales, fábricas, puestos de control, todos envueltos en un claro manto espectral que no oculta la bélica colisión de las municiones y su patente.\nLas consecuencias del conflicto se palpan a través de estas imágenes a pesar de la incomprensión de su contexto, las imágenes de guerra son quizás las más conocidas desde el siglo XX.\n\nInter vitam et mortem trata sobre las cicatrices que dejan las guerras la humanidad, trata del vacío y la soledad, la guerra se transplanta entre las memorias, se ensaña y cambia a todos y todo, a los soldados que regresan y se vuelven anónimos, a sus familiares y amigos, a la población y a los niños que afrontaron ese entorno que perdurará en su espíritu.\nEsta serie, a diferencia de otras de Maxim Dondyuk, tiene un enfoque más íntimo que se vale del lado estético para transmitir sentimientos más profundos.\nEn cuestiones de guerra, nadie gana, todos 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Tchernobyl, le temps s’est arrêté en 1986"},{"insert":"\n\nAprès la catastrophe nucléaire de Tchernobyl en 1986, des milliers de kilomètres carrés sont devenus inhabitables. Leurs habitantes et habitants ont dû fuir dans la précipitation, sans même avoir le temps de prendre leurs affaires personnelles –et notamment leurs photos. Depuis 2015, le photographe ukrainien Maxim Donduyk a entrepris de rassembler et de restaurer ces images trouvées dans les maisons et les bâtiments de la région contaminée. «Avec ce projet, explique-t-il, je veux montrer la vie heureuse et pleine d’amour des gens de la région avant qu’elle ne soit absorbée par le nuage radioactif. Je veux montrer l’autre côté de Tchernobyl, l’histoire avant la tragédie, comment et qui vivait là-bas.»\n\n«Ce travail ne ressemble à aucun autre de mes projets. Avant, j’étais toujours l’auteur des photos. Le projet Tchernobyl est le premier pour lequel j’ai fait le choix de mettre en avant des photos trouvées, que je n’ai pas réalisées moi-même.»\n\n«En 2008, j’ai visité pour la première fois la zone de Tchernobyl. J’y suis allé en tant que photojournaliste, envoyé là-bas pour une mission. Jusqu’à la fin de l’année 2010, j’ai continué à y revenir, pour différents travaux. J’étais totalement fasciné par l’endroit, les maisons abandonnées à la hâte et la nature recouvrant progressivement les traces humaines.»\n\n«Je suis revenu dans la région en 2015, après avoir couvert la révolution et la guerre en Ukraine. À Tchernobyl, je ressentais et voyais les choses différemment. Je ne cherchais plus à faire de reportage; j’étais intéressé par la contemplation et l’exploration visuelle de la zone que j’avais déjà photographiée.»\n\n«Je m’intéressais aux bâtiments, aux maisons rurales à l’architecture singulière et aux traces d’installations militaires. J’ai commencé à être fasciné par les paysages, qui peuvent parfois en dire beaucoup plus sur ce qui s’est passé que les faits en eux-mêmes. J’ai mené un autre projet, intitulé “Entre la vie et la mort”, où j’ai utilisé la même approche visuelle. Les ruines laissées par la guerre, à mon avis, montrent beaucoup plus son horreur que les événements sanglants survenus en 2014.»\n\n«Dans la zone de Tchernobyl, presque toutes les maisons et les monuments détruits portent en eux-mêmes le souvenir de l’époque antérieure à la catastrophe. C’est ce qui m’attire, et me ramène plus de trente ans en arrière. Après tout, le temps s’est arrêté ici en 1986, à l’ère de l’Union soviétique. Lettres, meubles, architecture: tout était figé dans le temps. Et c’est fascinant, même si je suis évidemment contre ce qu’a fait le gouvernement soviétique à l’époque.»\n\n«Là-bas, tout me rappelle le pays où je suis né. De temps en temps, je trouvais des lettres et des photos de personnes qui vivaient dans ces régions, et cela m’a incité à vouloir en apprendre le plus possible sur la vie à Tchernobyl avant l’explosion et à sauvegarder ces objets visuels et historiques. Je ne m’attendais pas à trouver un tel nombre de photos.»\n\n«J’ai été étonné de voir comment le gouvernement soviétique avait évacué ces personnes. Il leur a promis qu’elles allaient pouvoir revenir quelques jours plus tard et qu’il n’était donc pas nécessaire de prendre avec elles des choses inestimables, telles que des lettres, des photos de parents ou d’amis. Imaginez que toutes les photos de votre famille disparaissent pour toujours, et qu’il vous soit impossible de garder ces souvenirs avec vous.»\n\n«Ce projet ressemble à une fouille archéologique. Aucun de ces objets n’était proprement posé sur une table ou une étagère. Une épaisse couche de boue et de déchets les recouvraient, dans des maisons abandonnées et presque détruites. Les photos étaient par terre, sous des meubles brisés, partout.»\n\n«J’ai évidemment dû restaurer les images. La plupart étaient abîmées. J’ai tout lavé, séché et scanné. Certains films ont été détruits par le nettoyage. Pour le moment, j’ai fini l’étape des scans. J’ai aussi trouvé des affiches de cinéma, des lettres, des cartes postales ou des films. Le travail qui reste à accomplir est titanesque.»\n\n«Pour tout le monde, Tchernobyl n’est associée qu’à la tragédie de la centrale nucléaire et à ses conséquences. Je suis farouchement opposé aux centrales nucléaires, je pense qu’elles nuisent à notre planète et à sa population.»\n\n«En plus de trente ans, aucune organisation gouvernementale ni aucun musée d’Ukraine n’a essayé de faire quelque chose pour sauver une histoire aussi inestimable. Je souhaiterais désormais retrouver les personnes qui figurent sur les photos. Je voudrais créer un site où les gens pourraient trouver sur une carte les maisons dans lesquelles ils vivaient, trouver leurs proches ou eux-mêmes sur des photos et télécharger des archives numériques. Mon frère Nikolai Dondyuk, réalisateur de documentaires, m’a rejoint dans ce projet et a commencé à tourner un film sur cette histoire.»\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Interview by Julia Kaczorowska | polish, 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Dondyuk: “Być szczerym wobec tych, których fotografujesz”"},{"insert":"\n\nCrimea Sich, militarno-patriotyczny obóz dla młodych Kozaków. Chłopcy w wieku od siedmiu do szesnastu lat uczą się jak używać (prawdziwej) broni i przetrwać w trudnych warunkach w razie konfliktu. W międzyczasie grają razem w szachy, skaczą beztrosko do jeziora. Oficerowie kładą duży nacisk na rozwój fizyczny, ale i duchowy.\n\nMaxim Dondyuk, który dwa lata temu został doceniony przez Magnum Photos w ramach selekcji 30 under 30, fotografował życie w obozie przez dwa lata, próbując zrozumieć czemu w czasach pokoju dzieci trafiają w takie miejsce. Sytuacja jednak uległa zmianie ze względu na aneksję Krymu przez Rosję w 2014 roku.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Jak trafiłeś na obóz Crimea Sich?"},{"insert":"\n\nPierwszy raz odwiedziłem obóz w 2010 roku, podczas robienia reportażu o Tatarach krymskich dla jakiejś gazety. Wtedy spędziłem tam tylko na kilka godzin i zrobiłem parę zdjęć, ale historia przyciągnęła moją uwagę i obiecałem sobie, że tam wrócę. Potem, przez dwa lata z rzędu wracałem tam każdego lata, by zebrać pełen materiał. Moim celem było zrozumieć, dlaczego dzieci w tak młodym i delikatnym wieku uczy się jak używać prawdziwej broni w czasie pokoju, kim są te dzieci i czemu tam trafiły.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Ponoć żyłeś i trenowałeś na takich samych zasadach jak reszta obozowiczów przez ponad dwa tygodnie. Czy coś cię wyjątkowo zaskoczyło?"},{"insert":"\n\nKiedy pierwszy raz przyjechałem na obóz, nie zdawałem sobie sprawy z tego, jak głębokie historie w sobie kryje. Nie był dla mnie niczym specjalnym, ot, obóz dla dzieci. Jedyna rzecz, której nie mogłem zrozumieć, to czemu dzieci mają być uczone jak radzić sobie z bronią, podczas gdy mamy pokój. Ale im więcej czasu z nimi spędzałem, tym bardziej docierało do mnie, że ta historia wcale nie jest tak prosta, jak mi się wydawało…\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Jak udało ci się zdobyć zaufanie chłopców? Jak reagowali na ciebie i, przede wszystkim, na twój aparat?"},{"insert":"\n\nMyślę, że na każdego fotografa reaguje się inaczej. Jeden może pojechać na targ zrobić reportaż i zostanie pobity, inny dostanie tam upominki i wróci z wieloma zdjęciami. Każdy fotograf musi znać podstawy z zakresu psychologii, mówiące o tym jak się komunikować z ludźmi i być z nimi szczerym. To bardzo ważne – być szczerym wobec tych, których fotografujesz.\n\nDla mnie każda historia, którą fotografuję, jest analizą wydarzenia, pewnego okresu czasu. Nie interesują mnie stereotypy i muszę sam zrozumieć sytuację, którą fotografuję. Staram się zatracić w temacie. Na obozie stałem się jednym z Kozaków: mieszkałem z chłopcami w tych samych warunkach w namiocie, wychodziłem na treningi, jadłem z tego samego garnka, grałem w karty… Jedyną różnicą było to, że jednocześnie robiłem zdjęcia czy kręciłem film. Kozacy nie uznawali mnie za obcego, stałem się ich częścią, doświadczyłem wszelkich trudności i radości z jakimi musieli się na co dzień spotykać.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Wspomniałeś o filmie. Poza materiałem fotograficznym z obozu, który już powstał, jesteś w trakcie pracy nad filmem dokumentalnym o Crimea Sich. Kiedy narodził się ten pomysł?"},{"insert":"\n\nW połowie 2013 roku, z wielu powodów zacząłem poważnie myśleć o filmach dokumentalnych. Wydawało mi się, że mogą opowiedzieć ważne społecznie historie znacznie lepiej niż zdjęcia. Postanowiłem zrobić film na temat jednego z moich projektów o Crimea Sich. Uświadomiłem sobie po prostu, że ta historia jest znacznie głębsza niż mi się wydawało i nie jestem w stanie opowiedzieć jej jedynie za pomocą zdjęć. To dlatego zdecydowałem się nakręcić dokument – wydaje mi się, że za pomocą takiej formy jestem w stanie wiele przekazać w sposób bardziej zrozumiały dla odbiorców. Ale zanim ukończę film nie mogę za dużo zdradzić, mam nadzieję zrozumiecie to lepiej po obejrzeniu.\n\nW 2013 wróciłem na obóz, tym razem z moim bratem. Zaczęliśmy kręcić. Po paru miesiącach wybuchła rewolucja na Ukrainie, potem Rosja zaanektowała Krym i rozpoczęła się wojna w Donbasie, na Wschodzie Ukrainy. Okazało się, że uchwyciliśmy ostatni rok kiedy obóz istnieje w swojej oryginalnej formie – obóz, na którym dzieci z Ukrainy, Rosji, Mołdawii i Białorusi trenują razem.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Na koniec rozmowy zejdźmy na temat samej fotografii. Czy jest jakiś twórca, który cię inspiruje?"},{"insert":"\n\nNajwiększy wpływ mają na mnie nie fotografowie, a pisarze i malarze. Za każdym razem gdy przyjeżdżam do jakiegoś kraju pierwszy raz, zwiedzam muzea i galerie. Uwielbiam malarstwo artystów żyjących w okresie Realizmu. Malowali tak ważne sceny walki, uwieczniali historyczne momenty, ale nigdy nie zapominali o aspekcie estetyki. Ich obrazy są piękne i bardzo mnie inspirują.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"A co najbardziej pociąga Cię w fotografii?"},{"insert":"\n\nNajbardziej lubię fotografię dokumentalną, gdy fotograf nie ingeruje w rzeczywistość, nie prosi o sztuczne pozowanie, ma tylko krótką chwilę na zrobienie zdjęcia. Poprzez fotografię odkrywam nie tylko świat wokół mnie, ale i mój własny świat. Dzięki fotografii nauczyłem się dostrzegać niektóre rzeczy, doceniać to, czego wcześniej nie doceniałem i zapamiętywać to, co może zostać zapomniane. Zmieniła wiele w moim życiu i w mojej głowie. Fotografia nie jest jedynie moją pracą czy moim hobby. Naprawdę, to dla mnie jakby filozofia, która każdego dnia napełnia mnie nową energią. Wierzę, że fotografia, jak każda inna sztuka, jest zbiorem emocji. Prócz tego co widzimy lub słyszymy, odczuwamy również emocje, które autor włożył w zdjęcia. Czasem wizualnie nudne zdjęcie może być bardzo emocjonalne, i vice versa. Emocje są dla mnie bardzo istotne w fotografii.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Jakie są twoje fotograficzne plany na najbliższe miesiące?"},{"insert":"\n\nNa chwilę obecną moje główne plany to ukończyć moją pierwszą książkę fotograficzną o rewolucji na Ukrainie w latach 2013-14 i skończyć postprodukcję filmu Crimea Sich. Staram się zebrać pieniądze poprzez kampanię na Kickstarterze, jako że jest to naprawdę drogi etap pracy nad filmem. Mam również kilka pomysłów na kolejne projekty, ale nie jestem jeszcze pewien, czy którykolwiek dojdzie do skutku.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Dondyuk: ‘Photography To Me Is Like a Diary: Snap It and Move On’"},{"insert":"\n\nUkrainian photographer Maksim Dondyuk talks about why he doesn’t shoot in black & white, doesn’t work with film and can’t stand criticism.\nThis year, Maksim Dondyuk’s photo series about the Maidan events received the prestigious Rémi Ochlik Award and is now on display at the largest photojournalism festival, Visa pour l’Image, which takes place in Perpignan. In the past, Dondyuk rose to fame because of his other project dedicated to the tuberculosis pandemic that he worked on for two years. Bird In Flight spoke to Maksim about why budding photographers shouldn’t strive for quick recognition, why professional fanaticism is detrimental, and who would be better off staying away from documentary journalism.\n\nUnlike those competitions where you submit your works and pay entry fees, the Rémi Ochlik Prize is an award that other photographers and photo editors nominate you for. You might not even be aware of the fact. During closed voting the jurors decide who out of the suggested candidates in their opinion have accomplished something extraordinary in the field of documentary photojournalism. My Maidan project was nominated by photo editor Paris Match. My win in this competition was totally unexpected.\n\nAt this point of my life the Rémi Ochlik Prize is highly important to me. All previous triumphs served as gradual building blocks, and without them this last one would hardly be possible. Regardless of how good my photographs might be, I wouldn’t be nominated if people didn’t know about me. What often happens to creative individuals is that they wait for someone to show up and announce: “Aren’t you a genius!”. In actuality you need to learn the skill of self-presentation.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About getting into photography"},{"insert":"\n\nI started doing photography after my third try. When I was a boy I’d been given a “Smena”. My Mom was an avid photographer who taught me film developing. It didn’t go any further than that as we had a shortage of film at the time and it just didn’t stick with me. When I turned twelve my friend’s Dad started teaching an after-school photography class. We began shooting, processing. Everything was on the technical level, no artistry involved. Then cheap single-use cameras came out, printing services became popular, and the class got cancelled. I went on to serve in the navy. Later I moved to Kharkov and got a job as a chef. A week at the kitchen, a week at home. Decided that I needed a hobby and Photoshop stirred my curiosity. Bought a thick manual, started doing retouching of the old damaged photographs from my Mom’s collection. Eventually I came to realize that I need to be editing my own pictures so I purchased a camera.\n\nIn 2006 I began shooting spheric panoramas. At the time there were only three or four of us doing this in Ukraine. I got a camera, Nikon D70, and earned my first few bucks photographing. Some time later I was introduced to photographer Sergey Kozlov who took me on a reporting mission. I liked it. Afterwards I began working pro bono for an agency. I kept my night job as a chef while during the day I would always be heading out to see some house fires etc.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About your calling"},{"insert":"\n\nDo not take photographs too seriously. Do not get upset when something isn’t working out. Do not crawl out of your skin to have your photos published. Take on projects after you advance to a serious level. Only now did I reach the point of opening an exhibition, producing a book, however quite often that’s what many photographers start out with.\n\nThose who want to do photography for living need to choose a commercial direction: advertisements, weddings, something else. If one wants to enter the field of documentary photography they need to make it their drug. They shouldn’t wait for someone to pay them to go to a danger zone, they should finance it on their own. They need to understand that expositions are not a self-goal but the side effect of success.\n\nWhen photography becomes integral part of your life, when you get fanatical about it then you stop treating it as a job. During Lumex-fest I was checking out portfolios of young photographers. One guy used to shoot incredibly well before college, yet five years into the study he was shooting ten times worse – too much thinking about composition, about what format was needed for a magazine…but in the past he used to take some impressive, mind-blowing shots. He and I spoke about it and he agreed.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About personal goals and motivations"},{"insert":"\n\nI believe in no God, or anything else for that matter. Photography is my philosophy. It’s my tool of universal discovery that I use to understand what’s important and what’s not, what’s good and what’s bad. Through my own experience and through my interaction with others. My occupation allows me to take on roles of a surgeon, a soldier, a pilot, of anyone really. I can turn into a TB patient for a year, live his life and go back to my own with his experience. Such experience is highly meaningful.\n\nI try to invest my emotions into photographs. I firmly believe that a photo is not just a technical image but a capsule which contains my own sentiments.\n\nFrequently a photographer attempts to contemplate, constructing a frame, a composition – and lets the emotions slip by! As a result he ends up with a beautiful, balanced, and completely dead picture.\n\nMy photograph is purposely void of the authorial intent. Its perception level is what’s truly important. We all can see the image where riot police “Berkut” fights the protesters. That’s the initial stage. The next stage is the subconscious one which is connected to your own experience, to your inner world, – that’s when you can either perceive the image as a drawing or some iconic representation, or as a dream of yours. Then it affects you in a different, much deeper way.\n\nAt some point I decided I didn’t like photography at all. Out of boredom I went to Crimea and started shooting a movie there. It made me realize that film can tell a better story. Then I went back to photography and during Maidan I already had the complete understanding of the difference between a story, a journalistic tale, and the static images. Those are emotional. I encountered some insane scenes while at Maidan. And I tried to capture them in such a way so that they would be impacting others not just today but in 50 years too.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About visual language and awareness"},{"insert":"\n\nMany young authors have a concept, an idea, a text, and the characters. They have everything but the visual language. Because they are utterly lacking understanding of what visual communication with a viewer actually means. I have a theory that photography is a container where you store your emotions. When you feel, agonize, and come into close contact with what’s happening – you simply can not produce unemotional photography. On the other hand, if you are standing around thinking that your deadline is coming up in 20 minutes and that you need to take a photograph which would make it into an Associated Press report, then you will never capture feelings.\n\nVisual awareness is when you take photos of some expert, let’s say, James Nachtwey, or endlessly browse through thousands of images in the Magnum Agency archive, and then for a month try to replicate them in each reportage, like a monkey. When you end up copying a hundred authors you’ll have bits and pieces of each in your photographs – and that’ll be your style. This insight is vital for visual composition, and the next level will be incorporation of the emotional element, when you are implementing a Hemingway story, poems, music into your photography. This will be your art composed out of particles of everything. When you reach this level you’ll start practicing creative thinking instead of copying others.\n\nIt’s essential to learn the way to correctly convey what you see and what touches you. A photographer often attempts to contemplate, constructing a frame, a composition – all while missing the emotions! As a result he ends up with a beautiful, balanced, and completely dead picture.\n\nWhen I see what I want to shoot I pick up my camera right away and start shooting. Since I only have one set of lens I know the frame’s limits and don’t aim. When you begin measuring how to shoot, whether to stand or to kneel, or to lie down, messing with focus and mode… you loose track of what it is that you’ve been photographing. I do it differently: snap and move on. Photography is like Twitter to me.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About idols and sources of inspiration"},{"insert":"\n\nMany photographers pick two or three role models and start replicating them. Why not expand the circle of idols to at least a dozen? If I like a certain author I’ll try to analyze his thought process, why he was thinking this way and not the other. I’ll read all his interviews, watch every movie, go through each and every photo, find out where he lived and whether he had a mistress – I’d be interested in every detail about him.\n\nWhile shooting the tuberculosis asylum project, I became very inspired by Hunter Thompson. I got fully immersed into the history and started thinking of myself as “Gonzo”. I even tried taking photos with me in the stills – drinking vodka or playing card games with the patients.\n\nJames Nachtwey influenced me greatly as well, I worship him. His shoots are inhumanely demanding. I only shot the TB ward – and he’s made many of similar series. I understand how psychologically difficult it can get to unconditionally submerge yourself into each project.\n\nI like Hemingway. His books generate more ideas for photographs than works of any famous photographer. I have a dream to shoot a story about fishermen only because I read his book “The Old Man and the Sea”.\n\nWhile shooting the tuberculosis asylum project, I became very inspired by Hunter Thompson. I got fully immersed into the history and started thinking of myself as “Gonzo”. I even tried taking photos with me in the stills – drinking vodka or playing card games with the patients.\n\nIn the field of black & white photography my role model is Sebastiao Salgado. When it comes to color, I like Georgiy Pinkhasov. But only the way he works with color. There is plenty of imagery in his photography, yet it seems too drug-induced and overly visually aesthetical. It’s cool but what truly matters to me is factuality. Horst worked correctly with color.\n\nWhen I started working with colors I was advised as a novice not to use more than three at a time in order to avoid mush. With a photo editing software you need to wash out a photograph down to the color spots. If you like the result then the color composition is correct. If the colors are not working well together you need to make corrections. In time you train yourself to increase the number of colors on a photograph up to ten and make each work well with others.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"On equipment and choosing between film and digital"},{"insert":"\n\nI shoot everything with one lens – 35 mm. I also have a “fifty”, but only use it in two instances: when I need to shoot a portrait for “Spiegel” or when my 33 mm isn’t in working condition. I’m tired of fixing it and finally taped it together with some Scotch.\n\nDigital is still young and gets frequently misinterpreted. What’s important is not what you shoot with but the end result. I like film, yet it’s pricy and unpractical. I can make a RAW file look like a film still. Therefore I do not see advantages in film, it’s pure aestheticism.\n\nI couldn’t care less what to shoot with. Pretty soon everybody will be shooting with iPhones. Older photographers don’t like digital because equipment is now affordable and there are crowds of people who fancy themselves photographers, and because of the visual noise that they create it’s allegedly harder to channel attention to good pictures. And many of them dislike digit because they don’t know how to edit a digital file so it could look like film photography.\n\nI didn’t have photo editing lessons. I learned through visual cognizance: by looking at numerous color prints in order to understand which ones showed the sky coloring better. Take any film photography, put it in front of your face and keep editing the blue on the digital shot until it turns the shade off the print. At some point you’ll begin sensing color.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"About mentors, a personal journey and recognition"},{"insert":"\n\nI would advise budding photographers to self-evaluate and not listen to their colleagues. Because all photographers are competitors. Only a virtuoso, a highly accomplished individual can give you a truly valuable advice. With that said, some mentors try molding you into something that they couldn’t become. And when you choose another, unfamiliar to them path they stop understanding you.\n\nPhotographer Platon who took the infamous portrait of Vladimir Putin with his wide-angle lens for Time Magazine recalls in his interviews: for twenty years he’d been told that it was the wrong way to shoot, that a wide-angled image shot from below is defective. He didn’t deviate and kept on shooting the same way, he was fired. And now it became classical. If you’re the only person who thinks it’s the correct way while everyone else disagrees with you, then perhaps you are a genius.\n\nWhen you strive to achieve something for a while, you’ll inevitably encounter the moment of despair when you start thinking that your goal is unattainable and all the rest were correct trying to talk you out of it.\n\nThe project about life of the tuberculosis victims was integral part of my life. I couldn’t go out to have a beer with friends in the evening because all my friends, all people within my social circle\nwere the hospice patients. I’d gone into debt, lost my family, many of my loved ones didn’t want to keep in touch. They didn’t understand why it was so important to me. I lived with the ill folks, kept a blog where I posted my pictures, but over the course of the year no publishers took interest in those, even though I was offering it free of charge. When I talk about it at my lectures in Europe, students get puzzled. Because they wouldn’t start doing anything without a payment. They are taught this in college: first you receive a grant, then an order, and only then you begin shooting. And it certainly makes sense. You need to have a clear understanding of what to expect. I, on the other hand, have been swimming upstream.\n\nNothing is worse than all-surrounding praise. I don’t want to be liked by every person. When it comes to creating it’s crucial not to get reduced to kitsch. It’s okay to be told: “Your shooting sucks”. I heard it many a time while photographing the TB patients! At first no one even thought that anything would come out of it.\n\nPersistence is vital. When you strive to achieve something for a while, you’ll inevitably encounter a moment of despair when you start thinking that your goal is unattainable, and all the rest were correct trying to talk you out of it. But the truth is, it’s just life throwing you a curveball. If you stay the course and don’t get sidetracked – a new door will open for you soon. Patience is a great virtue.\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 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Dondyuk is a documentary photographer, videographer and multimedia producer. He covers social, cultural, environmental, health and human rights issues, including post-conflict and natural disaster zones. Together with his team Maxim also creates video projects, exhibition projects, and printed matter, such as catalogs, banners, brochures, etc.\n\nMaxim has worked on photo and video projects, collaborating with various international media and with the United Nations and international NGOs, such as The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), The World Health Organization (WHO), TB Alliance and others.\n\nHis projects were featured in GUP, British Journal of Photography, Rolling Stone, TIME, Newsweek, Der Spiegel, STERN, Polka, 6Mois, Paris Match, Le Monde, PDN, Bloomberg Businessweek, etc.\n\nHe is a finalist of the Prix Pictet ‘Disorder’ Photography Prize, International Photographer of the Year in Lucie Awards, finalist of the W. Eugene Smith Grant in Humanistic Photography, winner of the Ville de Perpignan Remi Ochlik Award, Magnum Photos competition ‘30 under 30’ for emerging documentary photographers, to name a few. \n"}]},"title":"Untitled 161","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":"#2d2d2d","hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":false,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"text","summary":{},"text_content2":{"ops":[{"insert":"His works were exhibited internationally at the Musée d’Art Moderne (Paris), Somerset House (London), MAXXI National Museum of XXI Century Arts (Rome), Stadtisches Museum im Kornhouse (Germany), International Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum (Geneva), the Biennale of Photography in Bogota (Colombia), among others.\n\nHis works are in the permanent collections of the National Museum of Photography (Colombia), Benaki Museum (Greece), Museum of The History of Ukraine in World War II (Ukraine) and private collections.\n\n\nMaxim is currently based between Chiang Mai, Thailand, Kyiv, Ukraine and Paris, France. Available for assignments worldwide.\n\n\n"},{"attributes":{"bold":true},"insert":"CONTACT"},{"insert":"\nIrina Dondyuk - Manager\nT +380 (50) 148 21 07\nE 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with Documentary photographer Maxim Dondyuk"},{"insert":"\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"How did you get into photography?"},{"insert":"\n\nI started doing photography after my third try. When I was a child, when my mother and I were sitting in a red room. She was an amateur photographer and constantly took pictures of our whole family on camera ZENIT. I remember I was given a camera SMENA, but my enthusiasm didn’t last long. Again I took the camera when I was 12 years old, than I joined a photography club. I went there for a couple of months, filmed several dozen of films, developed them and than threw the whole thing. When I was 24, I worked in a totally unrelated field to photography, I was a chef in a Kharkov restaurant. A week at the kitchen, a week at home. Decided that I needed a hobby. I read a lot of literature about visual arts, photography, tried to read everything I could find in Russian. Photoshop stirred my curiosity. Bought a thick manual, started doing retouching of the old damaged photographs from my Mom’s collection. Eventually I came to realize that I need to be editing my own pictures so I purchased a camera. In 2006 I began shooting spheric panoramas. At the time there were only three or four of us doing this in Ukraine. I got a camera, Nikon D70, and earned my first few bucks photographing. Some time later I became a photojournalist, worked for free just for the experience. I kept my night job as a chef and as a photojournalist in the afternoon. But after half a year I left my main job and became a photojournalist in a daily newspaper.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Where do you get your creative inspiration from?"},{"insert":"\n\nMostly I’m influenced not by photographers but by writers and painters. Each time I come to a new country, I visit museums, galleries. I love paintings of artists who worked in realism. They painted such important battle scenes but never forgot about aesthetic side. Their paintings are very beautiful.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What is it like being a documentary photographer this days?"},{"insert":"\n\nNowadays it is a hard time for the whole non-commercial photography. Magazines can’t allow themselves to cover such photographers’ expenses as they did it before. More and more magazines are being closed. Many documentary photographers look into the galleries direction. It’s a critical time, which is usually difficult for the photographers who work in this sphere.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What is your most memorable story in photography?"},{"insert":"\n\nTrue to say, each my project, story or photo is important, memorable and has a huge background. They are the part of someones life or death, so it is hard to tell what it more special for me. Each project it’s a certain period of my life.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"Which series/project was most challenging for you so far?"},{"insert":"\n\nThe most difficult was my first serious project, TB epidemic in Ukraine. I worked as a photojournalist in one Ukrainian agency, but realized that I want to shoot my own projects. So I quipped and decided to work on this social story. I chose the problem of tuberculosis, as at that moment I also believed in all the stereotypes of the disease and didn’t suspect that the epidemic of tuberculosis has a status of the national problem in Ukraine. The more I got into this topic, the more it was sucking me. I had no job, my girlfriend left me, I had no place where to live and no money. This project became a part of me. I tried to plunge into the life of man suffering from tuberculosis as much as possible. At that time I was interested in the novels of Hunter Thompson and they made a great influence on my approach to the project. After two years of such a life, I understood that I need to stop, as the borders were lost, and I was plunging too deeply in all this. In Ukraine there are no photojournalistic or documental universities, so I faced with a lot of problems at that time. And this project became my own «university», I made a lot of mistakes but at the same time I gained huge experience.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What do you do besides photography?"},{"insert":"\n\nI’m very interested in art. So all my spare time I spend reading book, listening to the music, watching films, going to the museums. Through photography I discover not only the world around me, but also my own. Due to photography I learned to notice what I didn’t notice before, to appreciate what I didn’t appreciate before and remember what can be forgotten. I’m very grateful to photography for all my changes in life and mind. Photography isn’t just my job or a hobby. It’s a philosophy of my life, which every day fills me with new energy.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What is your favorite photography book?"},{"insert":"\n\nThere are a lot of them. But one of the latest it is book of Larry Towell «Afghanistan». I like not photo albums with just photos, but books from which I can understand the author and to know his story deeply.\n\n"},{"attributes":{"italic":true},"insert":"What are your future plans with photography?"},{"insert":"\n\nIn autumn I have several exhibitions in Paris. Since April 2015 I’m working on my first photo book «Culture of the Confrontation», hope to present it this year. Also I plan finally to work on my first documentary film, I filmed the story about Cossacks in the Crimea Sich camp, I have 40 hours of the video. I had a story about the war in the East of Ukraine, I want to finish it, I mean to make a book or video or story on my site. So, a lot of work to do. 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of the Confrontation: live from the Ukrainian Revolution"},{"insert":"\n\nIPA Series runner-up Maxim Dondyuk’s astonishing, cinematic images of Euromaidan, Ukraine’s bloody wave of protest\n\nAs winter approached in late 2013, the rumblings of political, social and civil discontent in Ukraine was growing louder by the day. When Viktor Yanukovych, the nation’s president, rejected a deal with the European Union for a $15bn aid package from Russia, many citizens were furious. Promising greater political integration and closer cultural ties, lots of Ukrainians saw the EU deal as a new path for the country, whose economic predicament was worsening. \n\nOn the 21st November, up to 20,000 protesters gathered in Kiev’s Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) after spreading messages on social media. By the 24th, their numbers had swelled – somewhere between 50,000 and 200,000, depending on who you asked. As pro-EU demonstrators chanted and marched, a small group attempted to storm the Government Building.\n\nThat’s when the trouble really began.\n\nThe wave of civil unrest flooded the streets, fuelled by a heady mix of Cold War-era hostilities, far-right opportunism and pan-European democratic idealism. What became known as Euromaidan led to the Ukrainian Revolution, with President Yanukovych being ousted from power in February 2014.\n\nUkrainian photojournalist Maxim Donyduk documented this iconic moment in his nation’s history in his project Culture of the Confrontation – a Series runner-up in the 2016 International Photography Awards – depicting the bloody battles of Euromaidan in 2013.\n\n“FOR ME, EMOTIONS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN FACTS.”\n\nHis extraordinary images, which were also shortlisted for the sixth edition of the Prix Prictet, speak to the kind of bravery all photojournalists need to document scenes of conflict, but their weathered beauty takes them to an epic scale where lines blur; legend and reality, past and present.\n\nFor Dondyuk, inserting himself into the drama and tumult that was unfolding was less a choice, and more a moral obligation. “I am a documentary photographer – I have faced dangerous situations before and I will again, so I absolutely didn’t think about the dangers of going to Maidan. I began to shoot because this was happening in my country, in the city where I live. At some point I realised that it touches me personally, that this is a historic moment in my country.”\n\n“I SAW NOT THE UKRAINIAN REVOLUTION – I SAW BATTLES FROM PREVIOUS WARS, LEGENDS AND FAIRY TALES.”\n\nIn Dondyuk’s Euromaidan, we see voluminous shafts of light emerge between gigantic plumes of blackened smoke, the rising fires breaking out on the steps of centuries-old buildings and tattered Ukrainian flags marked with the dirt and blood of those flying it proudly. Dondyuk has previously called Euromaidan “one of the most beautiful revolutions, like a scene from a Hollywood film”.\n\nThe aesthetic qualities of the images do raise an uneasy question – is it misleading, even dangerous, to make these scenes of violence look appealing?\n\n“Photography is my visual language, because sometimes it is difficult to find the words to convey what I see.\n\n“From the very beginning Euromaidan turned into a real performance, a battle of opposites. Good and evil, light and shadow, thick black smoke and whiteness of the February snow, orange helmets against black. I kept being reminded of Realist paintings, who long before photography, documented historical events in the same manner. When you look at their works in a museum, you don’t question [their process].\n\n“It wasn’t so important for me to answer the ‘what, where, why?’ of the situation. I wanted to evoke peoples’ associations and memories and get them to see what I saw. I saw not the Ukrainian revolution at Independence Square, I saw battles from previous wars, legends and fairy tales.”\n\nThe title of the series is a clear nod to the clash of two distinct groups in Ukrainian society – an older culture nostalgic about the Soviet Union and a younger generation attempting to build a new future. But as Dondyuk makes clear, the ideas within the project and the title sprawl wider than the confines of nationalism:\n\n“At Maidan it was not two different generations – it were two cultural layers who live on one territory. This confrontation is eternal, it started long ago and will continue again and again. The country it happens in doesn’t even matter. For me, in photography emotions are more important than facts.”\n\nA list compiled by Ukrainian media watchdog Telekrytyka in December 2013 listed over 40 injured journalists and photographers, with many reporting deliberate beatings by riot police despite holding journalist credentials – including a photographer from the New York Times.\n\n“EVERY WEEK, SOMEONE I PHOTOGRAPHED WOULD DIE.”\n\nImpassioned protestors, hard-right disruptors and Western photojournalists were being treated with equal disdain. One particular moment is particularly vivid in Dondyuk’s memory, as he recounts:\n\n“The first and last time I really felt fear was when snipers opened fire on protesters on the Independence Square. When all the protesters ran towards the attack, I ran with them, staying with a small group of protesters near the stairs of the October Palace.\n\n“From the building emerged men in black holding guns and opened fire in our direction. We were running away from the fire, hiding from the shots behind the trees. I saw bodies of dead protesters for the first time, and countless wounded being carried to the Hotel Ukraine, which was used as a [makeshift] field hospital.\n\n“At that moment, I felt fear.”\n\nThat kind of exhilarating proximity to the situation is partly what drives photojournalists. Dondyuk’s first experience of this “immersion” was on a project he shot in 2010 and 2011, shooting the TB epidemic in Donbass:\n\n“It was my first serious project, and it became very difficult psychologically. I became acquainted with people and over time I followed them to their grave. I was living in close, constant contact with death; every week someone I photographed would die. These projects change me personally – I don’t know how I could get this experience without photography.”\n"}]},"title":"Untitled 241","video_loop":true,"horizontal_viewer_enabled":false,"content_size":"Default","cover_text_color":null,"hide_from_menu":false,"description_enabled":false,"content_size_type_text":false,"text_color":null,"imagegrid_layout":"Contained","imagegrid_gutters":"S","viewer_caption_enabled":true,"image":null,"horizontalscroll_align":"Center","text_media":"None","imagegrid_ratio":"1:1","type":"text","summary":{},"text_content2":{},"alignment":"Center","index_caption_enabled":false,"background_color":null,"slideshow_transition":false,"slug":"untitled-241","cover_media_fit":"contain","part_of_stacked_page":true,"horizontalscroll_layout":"Equalheight","horizontalscroll_size":"M","index_grid_item_grow":false,"tags":null,"menu":null,"inserted_at":"2020-01-22T05:46:30Z","imagegrid_horizontal_align":"Justified","site":null,"stacked":false,"text_media_video_url":null,"index_text_vertical_alignment":"Center","updated_at":"2020-01-22T05:46:59Z","link_page_url":null,"menu_representation":"page","set_id":null,"index_grid_item_width":"1/1","published":true,"text_columns":"Wide","menu_id":"1f95cb09-7e1d-4974-9036-7f286a7969b0","move":null,"slideshow_size":"M","cover_text_size":"M","description_alignment":"Left","homepage":false,"position":1073741824,"imagegrid_caption_enabled":false,"viewer_image_title_enabled":true,"video_controls":false,"cta_url":null,"content_text_size":"One","image_id":null,"viewer_size":"L","meta_description":null,"viewer_count_enabled":true,"tag_ids":[],"browser_title":null,"imagegrid_align":"Center","cover_image":null,"slideshow_show_image_title_enabled":true,"horizontalscroll_caption_enabled":false,"cta_label":null,"path":"publications/essays-interviews/the-british-journal-of-photography-text-by-brennavan-sritharan-english-2016/untitled-241","imagegrid_columns":"M","logo_disabled":false,"text_image_enabled":false,"cover_media_size":"L","description_content":{},"slideshow_show_caption_enabled":true,"child_ids":null,"horizontalscroll_gutters":"S","published_at":"2020-01-22T05:46:30Z","index_layout":"Text","index_text_size":"M","slideshow_ratio":"1:1","id":"e7fa876e-892e-429d-9e2c-56e2e8734687","subtype":null,"slideshow_show_backstory_enabled":false,"cover_image_id":null,"children":null,"parent_id":"864c29c1-607b-4099-a422-ebccd1f27da4","invert_colors":false,"index_text_layout":"Center","cover_media_autoplay":false,"description_content_html":null,"video_autoplay":true,"index_text_media_size":"M","rank":null,"imagegrid_ratio_orientation":"Landscape","site_id":"63cff860-2a49-4d8f-a534-f9fab068f116","imagerid_viewer_enabled":true,"slideshow_show_count_enabled":true,"viewer_backstory_enabled":false},{"menu_disabled":false,"